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Post by Dad2Brooke on Nov 13, 2003 15:57:32 GMT -5
I have been reading these terms for a while and I did some research on what they are and I understand that, but I still have a few questions:
1. Who initiates this process. (I think that is obvious, the parents, but want to know for sure)
2. If I do initiate it, how?
3. What does it entail? (Testing? Evaluations?)
4. How long does it take to get one in place?
I have been reading these posts and a lot of the things I see that are in someone's IEP, I think that Brooke would benefit from.
Thanks!
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Post by catseye on Nov 13, 2003 16:07:32 GMT -5
In our case it was the school..
Not sure but I would think all a parent has to do is tell the teacher, and principal, they want their child tested to see if he/she qualifies for an IEP.. (I dont know squat about 504)..
Yes testing and evaluations... For sd it was OT (occupational therapy testing), speech and language.. They also had a social worker involved from school, and a autistic speciallist observed sd... I dont know any of the names of the tests, they are all at home at the moment...
I think that will depend on many factors, how fast the school moves, how desperately the child needs assistance etc... SD original IEP was done within 2 months, and has been modified every year since...
Essentially as long as these are followed I feel they can help most kids in educational trouble... Good luck
cat
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Post by eaccae on Nov 13, 2003 16:21:40 GMT -5
Ralph - I don't know much about the 504 process - we are in the middle of the IEP process. Anyone can initiate it - the school or the parent. It has to be in writing. There is a meeting that takes place - that *SHOULD* include the parents - to decide if an evaluation will be done (must be done to set up an IEP) or not.
The evaluation includes general testing - IQ and other academic skills, different scales and checklists filled out by both parents and teachers, etc. As a parent you can include in writing specific testing if you suspect a LD. They have to decide whether or not they are going to evaluate your child within a certain amount of time and if they decide yes - I think they also have time constraints on that as well.
As for the IEP itself - our meeting is on the 25th so I can't speak from experience. After talking with the teacher and others on the PPT I do believe we are going to have typing for content as an accomodation and probably extra time for getting work done. I am not sure what the rest will entail. But in the best of circumstances the school and the parents work together to find a program that will be successful.
In our experience - the group called a PPT at the end of last year due to concerns with the handwriting problems and decided at that time that a full eval and an IEP were NOT necessary. I hadn't ASKED for one. Wish I had. This year - within three weeks of school starting - the teacher was already calling me up with panicked messages and statements. So I called the principal - we met and I formally requested in writing an evaluation with specific testing for writing disabilities and executive dysfunction (organization) for the purpose of setting up an IEP. Within three weeks I met with the PPT (the "team") and they all decided to go ahead and do it - and his teacher felt that he could really benefit from this. The eval has been done. They are still doing testing for the writing disabilities. And on the 25th we have our meeting.
So - if you are thinking that Brooke could benefit from either a 504 or an IEP (Individualized Educational Program) - my suggestion is to pursue it. We always had teachers that informally made accomodations for him - but now that we are in grade 3 - that is all gone. And the year after next he will be at the intermediate school - so I wanted this in place now.
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Post by Dad2Brooke on Nov 13, 2003 16:22:22 GMT -5
Not sure yet if that is the route I want to take. Still mulling it over.
Does anyone have any horror stories about other kids teasing IEP kids because of it?
Are they considered "confidential"?
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Post by catseye on Nov 13, 2003 16:27:23 GMT -5
No teasing, that I know of.. But with sd's autism she wouldnt know if she was being teased, or care  very sad... For sd it cant be totally confidential, just because the other kids see sd getting removed from class to go to resource room, therapy's, or testing througout the day... So it is obvious to the kids she is " Different", but it isnt obvious to sd... She just doesnt comprehend what going on comparetatively (sp)... Good luck whatever you descide.. cat |
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Post by Dad2Brooke on Nov 13, 2003 16:34:22 GMT -5
So - if you are thinking that Brooke could benefit from either a 504 or an IEP (Individualized Educational Program) - my suggestion is to pursue it. We always had teachers that informally made accomodations for him - but now that we are in grade 3 - that is all gone. And the year after next he will be at the intermediate school - so I wanted this in place now. That is my thought process as well. If I do it I want it in place sooner, rather than later, and if the process takes a long time, then all the more reason to start now. I just don't want to do more damage than good, ie: kids making fun of her, or disgruntled teachers and administrator. Last year her teacher worked with her. This one does some, but last night Brooke told me that her teacher was almost yelling at her in class, when Brookes asked her to explain something again. I can understand the teachers exasperation, but she knows about the ADHD and has seemed to work with her in the past. I told Brooke that she needs to be very still and pay attention when the teacher explains it the first time. Then if she still does not undersatnd ask her to explain it. She said she would. But we all know that our children "would" if they could. With something like that in place through the IEP, the teacher would have to. (If she will is another story, although I think she cares and is concerned, and maybe overwhelmed with 25 other students.) |
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Post by eaccae on Nov 13, 2003 16:37:32 GMT -5
Generally - kids don't even know what an IEP is. It is confidential. I betcha alot of adults don't have any idea what an IEP is (I certainly didn't  . It is basically a contract from the school with certain accomodations they must make and provide - that might be as simple as initialing the homework sheet everyday, allowing more time for certain work to be completed, allowing less homework, not grading spelling mistakes on writing assignments, allowing typing in place of handwriting, etc. Usually kids in elementary don't really notice what is going on with the other kids. DS has brought his alphasmart to class to try it out and although the other kids looked at it - it never even occured to any of them that it was because of his writing. I think they all just he was cool with his laptop alternative thing going on. There are more kids then you probably could even imagine that have IEPs and 504s in place. I have discovered - talking with other parents - that some of the kids that I thought were doing really well - are actually on IEPs. Also - DS for the previous two years went to a remedial math group - he would leave the classroom and a few kids in each class would get together and go over math concepts etc. It was just called "math group" - none of the kids in the school knew what it was. This year he is actually in the enrichment program. He never realized himself that he was in a remedial math group and so now doesn't realize he is in an advanced math group. Most of the other kids don't notice this either (save a few- some kids are VERY aware that they are going to enrichment group). But in all honesty - the kids are coming and going in various groups - enrichment and remedial - that the kids really don't not the difference. So in our experience none of these things have been a problem for DS or any of the other kids I know about. |
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Post by Dad2Brooke on Nov 13, 2003 16:46:32 GMT -5
catseye and eaccae thank you both very much for the info. From your posts, I feel that even if there is teasing, the benefits far outweigh that.
I believe that I will ask Brooke how it went today in class, and if necessary get this ball rolling.
Thanks! ;D
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Post by Dad2Brooke on Nov 13, 2003 22:32:16 GMT -5
OK, play time is over. Brooke's teacher gave her an assignment today. She gave the whole class instruction on what to do. Brooke missed every single question.  The teacher then sat with her and gave her individual instruction, and Brooke got every single one right. ;D So the teacher writes me a note attached to both papers, in which she explains how they were done, and tells me, "this is a prime example of her not focusing." Further stating, "It is not feasible to give 2 tests each time."  This was my emailed response to her and the Principal: "Mrs. XXXXX, Now that Brooke has been on Strattera for a week, I would like for you to compare her behavior in class this past week, with her behavior while still on Concerta. Although, I realize that it takes about 6 weeks for Strattera to work at full strength, I feel it is necessary to monitor it closely. Is she more or less hyper? Is she more or less aggressive? Is she more or less talkative? Is she more or less disruptive? Is she more or less attentive? Is she more or less able to follow directions? Has her schoolwork suffered or improved? Please add anything I may have left out that you feel is important. As you are aware, I am very concerned about her schoolwork and behavior. I believe that we have both established that Brooke is capable of doing this work, wants to do this work, and does markedly better at schoolwork when she is given specialized attention. This is not only evident by the "Timelines Assessment" she was given today in which she missed every single one, and yet when you sat with her to do it, she got every single one right, but evident to me every evening when I sit with to do her homework and redo her schoolwork. I have been doing a lot of research on ADHD and education. I have come across the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act [IDEA] in my research and am very interested in some of the provisions it contains. Of particular interest is the part about Individualized Educational Programs (IEP). I would very much like to explore this further for the benefit of Brooke. I would like to request a meeting with you, Mr XXXXXXX, and whatever other individuals at XXXXXX XXX Elementary are necessary to facilitate this. Brooke's education and, indeed, her entire future, is at stake. Thank you, Ralph XXXXX" I'm not sure if guys can wear them, but can I borrow someone's hat? Better yet I think I better buy my own. LOL |
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Post by catseye on Nov 13, 2003 22:45:07 GMT -5
The teachers and I have filled out a "conners rating scale" after each med change... The only thing I would caution here is I have "heard" (again me know nothing  ) that straterra takes a few weeks to get working?? If that is right you may want to get your hands on one of these tests, have both teachers and yourself fill out (that shows home and school differences)... Although I cant say anything that has directly came about because of this rating scale, it is always very informative, to everyone involved... And you dont need a hat you have eeeerrrrr ummmm... Well you know... LOL Way to go dad!! cat |
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Post by catseye on Nov 13, 2003 23:09:04 GMT -5
Just a few FYI things I have found looking over sd existing IEP, in regards to some of the testing etc she was put through...
OT= occupational therapy did a bruininks-oseretsky test of motor proficiency (BOMP)
psychologist did a wechsler intelligence scale III, AND a kaufman test of educational achievement KTEA
teachers did a behavior evaluation scale (BES)
Anyway if you do get an IEP in place, be prepared to have the feeling that they are "labeling" brooke... This isnt a good feeling for a parent, especially when they use words like "cognitively impaired", PDD (pervasive developement dissorder), POHI (Sorry I forgot what that one means!!!
Im not trying to scare you, just give a sense of some of the testing names (that sd has been through may not be necessary for brooke), and "labels" they may throw at you while doing the tests, and trying to find the best way to help her...
Good luck, I hope that email gets their attention...
cat
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Post by Dad2Brooke on Nov 13, 2003 23:26:27 GMT -5
catseye, our pediatrician had the teacher and I fill out a Vanderbilt Followup assessment right before Brooke switched meds from this site: www.nichq.org/resources/toolkit/It is a lot like the Conner's I have filled out in the past. Thanks so much for all the advice. I know that Brooke may get labeled, but if it gets her the help she needs... And the eeerrrrrr..... ummmmm... comment. ROTFLMAO
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Post by TexasMom on Nov 14, 2003 0:21:09 GMT -5
I just wanted to mention that Steven has been teased more for wearing glasses and for being smart than for his ADHD. I wouldn't pass up the benifits of an IEP for the possible teasing she MIGHT get from the kids.
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Post by adhdtimes4 on Nov 14, 2003 8:49:15 GMT -5
Here's a great webpage that explains the difference between IEP's and 504's. www.hopkins.k12.mn.us/Pages/North/Hopkins_SS/idea504.htm. I really liked the chart at the bottom of the page. One of our sons has a 504, and he was worried about it at first. Several years later, he's never been teased. |
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Post by Angelia on Nov 14, 2003 9:50:19 GMT -5
Good for you Dad2Brooke!! I can not say that I blame you one bit for the e-mail to the school. I just love it when teachers make such lovely comments like this is another example of her not focusing. Do teachers just not understand it when we tell them that our children are adhd. Yes, we understand perfectly clear that they do not focus it is them that is not quite getting the picture. Do they think that we like to place our children on medication for no good reason at all or what. They are on medication for a reason one being that no they can not focus! If you get them to focus on anything for just a few minutes you have made a major accomplishment, and on the other comment that she made that it is not feasible for me to give two test everytime. Oh! is it not only feasible it can happen if your daughter was in a 504 plan, and she would have to do it then! I would recommend that you surpass the teacher, and go straight to the school counselor. that is what I did when I was trying to get my sons 504 plan started. I noticed that the teacher did not want to help me with it because it is a bigger work load on them, and no they do not always want or want to do a bigger work load. So, I went to my son school counselor, and told her that we were having major problems in the class seeing how my son was adhd, and we are seeing a doctor,and he is on medication, and I feel as though I am doing everything I can do as a parent to help him at home as well, but i can not sit up here, and make sure that the teacher is making complete sure that my child is understanding how to his class work that is were she has to come in and be the teacher. My son never even had to be tested through the school. The school knowing that my child had a documented case of adhd by a doctor, and was on medication for it was enough. I also had discussed it with his doctor, and he was with me 100%, and it does clearly state in the 504 plan litterature that children with adhd are allowed to be in this plan. They can not tell you that your child does not have adhd or does not quailify because they are not a doctor. So, you should have no problem getting her in a 504 plan that helps her modify her work in class. Because yes, she does have a disability that they have to accomidate for. Also my son has been in a 504 plan for 3 years, and has never been teased about it. It is a very secretive thing between the student, parent and teacher. If it is worked correctly it is suppose to be to were no one else is to be aware that this child has modifications. That is the whole point of the 504 program so that our children can maintain regular classes just like every other normal kid. I hope that some of this might help good luck!
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