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Post by BBW4EVR1 on Apr 5, 2004 23:41:35 GMT -5
OK- I will be the hard *** on this post. At our house, we try to keep the lines of communication open and honest. Most things are up for debate and/or discussion such as: curfews, what movies our kids are allowed to go too, taking our vehicle out for an evening, etc. However, there the FORBIDDEN FIVE--no discussion-no room for debate--period. They are-no drinking, no drugs, no smoking, no swearing, and the most important one no sex before marriage! There is no doubt in our children's minds what is acceptable and what is not. You might think that the forbidden fruit is the most tempting-however, the punishment that goes along with the forbidden fruit is so foreboding-that the forbidden fruit looks just a little rotten. Our daughter is 21 and is a junior in college. You might think I am living in a dream world, but she has never puffed on a cigarette, has nevery tried any drugs, does not swear, has been dating the same young man for 6 years and is engaged to him-she is still a virgin and will be when they get married in 2005. Has she drank--yep. She turned 21 last August and she got absolutely smashed at my family's Thanksgiving get together in November. I mean smashed!! Her dad and I were there and we let her go. She was still sick at midnight and has not touched a drink since! How do we know all of this, because she grew up in our home where we believe in absolutes--and we live by the five absolutes. My husband and I totally agree on them and we do not feel that these five "forbidden fruits" are too much to ask of our kids. The five absolutes at our home will not change. That doesn't mean that the next child might not break the rule, but he will also pay the consequences. So, as Jorgy says, I will get off of my soap box now!  Thanks for listening. |
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Post by Honeysmom on Apr 6, 2004 2:11:27 GMT -5
This is a very very good issue for everyone to discuss, and everyone has brought up wonderul points and opinions. I am not yet in a position that I have to deal with this yet, as my kids are both so small, but I do have (I think) interesting perspective on the issue.
My DH and I both come from long lines of alcoholics. My family puts up a respectable front, and DH's doesn't even try.
It was forbidden when I was a teen, and I never touched it in high school. DH's family couldn't have cared less, and he never touched it when he was in HS.
Then we got older, DH developed a real problem at about age 20. Having Honey really sobered him up quick. I didn't start to drink until I was 24. I do not consider us alcoholics, although some probably would. I think it has more to do with genetics, than anything.
Or maybe we grew up and wanted to see what we were missing and got sucked in. I really don't know to tell you the truth. I do know, that my kids will never see either of us drunk like we saw, and still see, our parents. I think that was the go-ahead for both of us. We felt at some point that our families did it, we should try it also. I have more respect for my kids than that. I think it is my responsibility to educate them about drinking. I don't know how I will handle this when they are older. I have to think it.
Also, I didn't start to drink until I was older, my sister and my brother both were allowed to drink when they were in HS and both are alcholics. My brother is flunking out of college and my sister is ruining her life completely.
I think it has to do more with what you show your kids buy your own behavior what is acceptable. If your kids see you fall-down drunk, they may get the impression that it is ok. If they see you have a few drink, handle yourself well, and call for a ride if YOU need one, that will leave an impression also.
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Post by rosyred45 on Apr 6, 2004 6:24:04 GMT -5
Well, just as the rules go, my husband calls me a goody goody. I don't think it's acceptable for underage drinking. Yeah I did it, but I also got caught a few times too. It would be the same for I guess one could sayit. If it's illegal to smoke it, it ain't happening in my house. If your too yougn, you ain't drinking either.
Then hubby steps in. If the kids are going to do something, he's rather them be supervised then have em rip roaring around out of control. I agree with that to a point, but I still think in the lawful goody goody sense....Isn't that just telling the kids it's ok to break the law, if mom and dad say so. Are mom and dad above the law?
I'm still confused, but I haven't had to jump that hurddle yet, wish me luck when I do.
Kaiti
I think that ALL laws were generally put in place for protection of the people, but just like school rules, not everyone is the same and shouldn't blanket every one. Dumb? yes, honest? yes. I know some 40yr olds that can't handle their liquer, so does that mean they are breaking the law?
Just something to think about
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Post by finnmom on Apr 6, 2004 9:09:58 GMT -5
I want to add an clearance in here!
I wouldn´t give alchohol to a child under 18, but after that legal age, I prefer them to have a glass of wine or a beer at home rather than somewhere else!
I also believe on role-model´s and learning through them, so it´s only a glass with meal, nothing more, never drunk in the eye´s of child, never DUI!
Marja
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Post by AnneM on Apr 6, 2004 11:51:27 GMT -5
The replies on this post are really so interesting .... Just recapping on what I think I have learned here... there is NO easy answer on this one! There is no "right" or "wrong"...We are all aiming towards exactly the same goal ... we DON'T want our kids to have alcohol problems.... Anyway, I am just going to "recap" aloud here! ... The factors seem to be: 1. Genetics. A potential pre-disposition to being potentially easily addicted to alcohol 2. Family values. Some are relaxed about alcohol. To others it is definitely forbidden. This is such a personal thing based on beliefs and own experiences. There is certainly evidence RIGHT HERE of successes and failures of BOTH ways of dealing with alcohol (i.e. forbidden vs relaxed attitude .... ). IMHO the success or failure of this point is verry much based upon the individual child ... 3. Geography. In the US I understand the general age to legally drink alcohol is 21. In Europe it is 18. That is a THREE year difference and that is pretty large!! 4. The child themselves & the environment they are in. In No. 4 my own son started to show a "curiosity" for alcohol... and i know many of his friends share this "curiosity" ... Based on that curiosity I said "If you want a beer - have a beer - have it at home - its not a big 'deal' - have one if you are so interested ... " If he had not shown an interest in it I would never have suggested it! My greatest fear is that he would "try it" out there with his friends ... he wouldn't have learnt how much "is enough" and it could potentially be a dangerous situation. What I also find interesting is that if alcohol was 'discovered' today it would be outlawed! There would be a HUGE furore and I reckon it would be put in the Class A list of drugs .... and yet it is such a socially accepted thing in 'most' of the world ... ! BUT alcohol has been around for so many hundreds of years and it is something that is SO MUCH "out there" and very available ... and I myself certainly enjoy a glass or two of wine sometimes! But ... what is the "right" or "wrong" way to teach our kids the dangers ... remains a mystery!  |
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Post by Honeysmom on Apr 6, 2004 15:12:41 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this post a lot since last night. It is hitting a spot with me. Anyhow, another reason I don't beleive that I would let my kids drink at home would be, if they did and behaved with ME that is one thing, but how do I know that is what they will do with friends? If I tell them it is OK to drink when they are underage I would feel like I gave the go-ahead. Not to mention, there is not guarentee that they can't develop an alcohol problem at home. Just a few more cents from me....  Becky |
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Post by AnneM on Apr 6, 2004 15:38:26 GMT -5
Yeah ... true Becky ... but on the other hand is the old "forbidden fruit" saga and the fact that teenagers as a whole DO go through an experimenting stage whether or not they are allowed restricted quantities at home ... I also have to admit that I drank alcohol well before I was 'legally' allowed to ... and this was back in the 1970's .. pretty much EVERYONE did ... and I believe they do now ... At the end of the day though I wonder whether it makes any difference whatsoever in the long-run as to whether people will have an alcoholic problem or not?
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Post by jdmom on Apr 6, 2004 16:05:46 GMT -5
Amsmom -
My best friend's father was an alcoholic and both her and her brother handle alcohol just fine. Yes, I've heard that the trait is genetic, but both of them seem to have no problems. They both drink socially (which isn't very often, she has 3 kids and he has 4) and my friend will even keep a bottle of wine around the house and have a glass on occasion.
I've been told my grandfather was an alcoholic in his younger days and addicted to prescription drugs in his latter. He was a pharmacist and lost his license over it. We didn't have much contact with him growing up and he died a few years back after living on dyalisis (sp?) for almost 20 years. No one else in my family has these problems.
I think what we all need to explain to our children is that there is a difference between "social drinking" and "dependant drinking". We also just need to stress the responsibilities that come along with alcohol. We need to make them understand that alcohol IS a DRUG. Just like pain medication, for example. Alcohol in small portions, used sparingly and responsibly is okay. It's when we abuse it (by drinking too much or not responsibly) that the trouble starts.
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SKay
Member Emeritus
Posts: 1,126
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Post by SKay on Apr 6, 2004 16:28:45 GMT -5
Of course this is only speculative, but I have no doubt that if I had ever taken the first drink, I would be an alcoholic today. Through the reading I've done over the last several months I have learned about myself. I tend to latch onto things that help me feel good. It's a good thing that I was not allowed to drink.
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Post by Linda on Apr 6, 2004 16:36:16 GMT -5
This has been such an interesting topic and I would like to thank everyone for their honesty.So few of us on the forum have teens...and those of us that do...well we are in the middle of the hectic times.I know from talking to Anne that her son Sam is a wonderful kid,as is Paul. I can tell you from personal experience to always keep the lines of communication open with your kids. I know parents that smoke "pot with there kids,and to me that is disgusting.I know another parent that lets her 16 year old son sleep with his girlfriend at her house.I guess my point here is there are a lot of other things to be concerned about too.So far I have been da* lucky!  Another thing that concerns me is a lot of our kids are on meds 7 days a week...what does that combo of alcohol and meds do to their systems? off MY soapbox now ;D |
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Post by BBW4EVR1 on Apr 6, 2004 16:57:13 GMT -5
I think one thing that has been overlooked here (or maybe mentioned once) is respect for the law. It is pretty simple, in Wisconsin it is against the law to drink under the age of 21-my response to my children seeing me have a glass of wine or beer would be, when you are 46 years old and have your own house, you too can enjoy a glass of beer or wine!!
I know, I know, you all think everything is black and white in my world--not everything is--but it is a whole lot easier for us as parents and--believe it or not--for our children if we stick to our absolutes-in other words the black and white issues.
I agree this has been an interesting post--my final thought would be that I would not allow my child to smoke a joint in front of me nor will I allow an underage child to drink in front of me. Does this mean that our next child will not do any of these things, absolutely not, but hopefully the fear of the consequences both from the law and from his parents might just be enough for him to give his decision a second thought!
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Post by Amsmom on Apr 6, 2004 18:25:07 GMT -5
Another thing that concerns me is a lot of our kids are on meds 7 days a week...what does that combo of alcohol and meds do to their systems? Thanks Linda, I forgot to mention that in my post. I am very worried about how alcohol will affect my ds because of his meds and his dx (bipolar/adhd). I know that bipolar individuals who drink can have horrible behavior while under the influence. Also the meds will not work effectively. A recipe for disaster, I think. jdmom, thanks for your response. This is so hard, I dread this problem when my ds8 becomes a teen/young adult. |
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Post by AnneM on Apr 7, 2004 14:03:33 GMT -5
I think this would make a great debate topic !! ;D Seriously though ... Linda brings up a VERY imporrtant point for all kids on meds ... and that is the mixture of alcohol and meds ... and with most meds there is always a note saying "Avoid alcohol" ... in the case of the stims the most I can find on searching is that the combination can make you " Drowsy" .... in the case of antidepressants and other meds I just am not sure ... but this certainly is something else that we parents AND our kids as they get older have to take into considration and contend with!! ... BBW ... on the case of the law ... I can see your point ... However, in the UK from the age of 14 we (the parents/guardians) are legally allowed to take our son/daughter into a pub AND buy him/her an alcoholic drink on the understanding that WE take responsibility for the younger person .... From the age of 14 they are also legally allowed to drink in the home with parental consent and as long as this is confined within the home ... They are however NOT legally allowed to drink in a public place of any description - they are NOT legally allowed to be out and about having consumed alcohol ... until they are 18. (However, admittedly drinking alcohol in pubs etc certainly starts pretty much "openly" here from around age 16... it isn't officially legal ... but it is generally accepted and has been the same throughout the generations)... Strangely enough I had a conversation about alcohol with my nearly 16 year old son tonight (I think this thread prompted my bringing it up!!  ) ... His comment was that yes... he likes to have the odd bottle of beer AT HOME ... (and it really IS the "odd" bottle) ... but that he would NEVER want to start spinning or feel out of control ... he says THAT would frighten him ... We went over again the dangers of alcohol ... the havoc it can wreak if it gets out of control ... he really seemed to wholeheartedly agree ... I guess all I can do is HOPE that it sinks home!! .. and I guess all we as parents can do is make sure they are realistically educated on it! (Oh iisn't it tough being a parent sometimes!?  ) |
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Post by TWHSFH27 on Apr 7, 2004 17:59:17 GMT -5
Hi
My daughter goes to a school that has been rated number 2 in the country for drugs!!! This is something that worries us a lot, however Alicia is very vocal about how much she hates that drugs are around. Now drinking is a different story....We had a big problem with drinking last year (Wrong friends as role models)... Alicia also complains about people smoking, so i don't think she will be a smoker either.... Very interesting topic!
Angela
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Post by anneke on Apr 12, 2004 9:31:59 GMT -5
hello
interesting topic.
in belgium you are aloud to drink beer in a public place at the age of 16. for the harder stuf it is 18. but nobothy cares. there are very few pubs that ask for identification when they think you are under age. in stores it is the same; and if they ask you say you are buying it for your fathers bithday present and everithing is ok.
I dont think it is good to be able to drink at young age, 21 is too old I think too.
there are a lot of problems in belgium with alcohol and teens, manny alcoholics, becouse manny dont just drink beer but stronger things.
big problems are too drinking and driving. sins a few year we hav the bob campane. you go out in a groop and 1 is bob , he is the one that does not drink. its a big succes. then there is the problem that the younger ones have a friend that is driving and not drinking but the older ones ( the parents) are thinking that they are better drivers and it is not a problem that they had too manny beers.
I almost nevver drink becouse I dont like beer and It fights wit h my ritalin.
In peru it was the first time I became drunk and I am 22 years now. my and my friend where at home in our sleeping room so I thought it was not bad nothing could hapen and I was thinking that I had to be drunk for 1 time in my life. we had a fun night.
teens offen think it is cool to be like the rest of the groop , but I think it is a lot cooler if you can say now. it is hard becouse It left me without friend.
Its like you cant have fun without drinking. when I am at a party and I am dancing and malking fun manny people think that I am drunk, I never drink at parties I just know how to make fun. I dont see the fun of lying stoned in a corner. I dont even know what drugs look like.
soft drugs are leagle here from the age of 18 but it are the younger ones that smoke it more, becouse nobothy knows the age . and the ones who knows have more important things to do. It is almost a rule between teen ager that you have to try all diferent things.
I was aloud do drink and smoke but no drugs and i never did it but my brother does. I dont think alouing it ore making it forbidden makes a big diference.
good luck with all your teenageres and teenagers to be
anneke
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