ADD is a relationship killer!

[Douglas]

I am 42, have two batches of children (the two adult children have clearly inherited my ADD), and have failed twice now in trying to have a family.

I have only recently been diagnosed, and while my first relationship was short (3 yrs), the second lasted over a decade. This is because, like the literature says, I had worked out some coping mechanisms to survive the workplace and give myself shelter when my disability overwhelmed me.

However, my second partner (with whom I had more children) could not tolerate the out-of-control behavior of the older two --- and the stress of dealing with outbursts, police, and eventual drug use and crime caused me incredible stress --- two more job failures, i washed out of my profession and now here I sit, with another failed relationship, no career, two out-of-control adult children and nothing but intolerance and contempt from my former partner!

On top of all of this, all my memory lapses, failure to complete tasks, and so on were interpreted by her as weakness of character, and she was not shy about saying so. You can imagine what this has done to my already-weak self-esteem.

My policy from this point is to be completely up-front about my disability, and hope that understanding and patience will result.

Failing this, I am without hope.

[kelley]

Douglas,

I am new here and to the whole ADD/ADHD experience (sort of). I had HAD it with my husband. I'm still a bit in shock. I went to counseling, because aside from the constant change in direction, he is a GREAT GUY.

My counselor suggested it might be ADHD. So I decided to research. I had so much hostility bottled up inside of me towards my husband. How could he act as if I don't matter after I have stuck by him for so long???

What I didn't realize is that he isn't acting as if he doesn't care. He is actually trying very hard, in his way. I have had many people ask me why I stay with him. People that have told me I will have nothing if I stick by him. To them, and to you, I say this.....LOVE. Love is an overwhelming tool to cope.

I think you are right about talking about your challenges. But I would caution that you don't come out guns blaring and fireworks shooting off all around you with this. Once you have someone you can trust and you want to build a relationship with sit them down and ask them what they know about ADD/ADHD.

I suspect that most, like myself, think they know more than they actually do. I have had plenty of people tell me, "oh yeah, my kid has that..or my husband has that..." and from what I have learned, most of them don't have a clue. Just becuase someone shuts you out when the t.v. is one does not mean they have ADHD, which makes it more difficult for people to understand exactly how hard it is when someone really does have these challenges.

I can't tell you how this has affected me. And for once in the past few years, I actually LIKE being married again. I love my husband. He is skatterbrained and NEVER knows where his keys are, but he is brilliant and FULL of life.

Hang in there my friend. Love is worth the battle. Good luck.

[lovemyson]

your post brought tears to my eyes. I too, am married to a man with ADHD (un-medicated) He is also brilliant and one of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet, he would do anything for anyone, as long as it isn't me. We have had marriage trouble now for about 7 years, married for almost 10, have tried therapy Etc. Now we are talking about separating. This is his idea not mine. Deep down inside I know it would probably be for the best, it might make him face his ADHD problems and do something about it, then there are the kids. 9 and 6, 6 year old just diagnosed with ADHD this past week. I think at this time it would do more harm than good for him....... I feel as though I am going to lose it soon.....This mesage board is a savior. Thanks for listening.

[Douglas]

lovemyson --- let me offer this. It may not help, but I can try to give you a peek into his mind and feelings.

When this disability has you in its grip, there is no one thing to grab hold of and wrestle with. Inside, I imagine that your husband feels his grasp of his life slipping a little at a time. His basic character remains intact but inside, his self-esteem is sliding, because he cannot do things he once did well, and his mechanisms for "faking" to hide his lapses in attention and task orientation may be less effective than they once were.

There is nothing more important to a man than to be adequate and sufficient for his loved ones. A man will stay in denial for a long time, rather than confront the idea that he is inadequate. If there is distance between you, it could be a subconscious resentment on his part that you remind him of what he once was and your day-to-day presence is a passive insistence that he not falter.

My advice: find ways to let him know that you are very content depending on him and sharing your daily burdens. Make love to him aggressively, letting him know that he is special to you and that he meets all your needs. Build his self-esteem by creating this intimate path that will let him express himself positively, allowing him to circumvent his inner frustration. Offer this without any conditions related to your possible separation, if you can.

Focus on your son's problems with as much determination as you can, with an eye toward trying to engage your husband's considerable intellect in alleviating some of your boy's frustrations. Do so without making any reference to the troubles you and your husband are having. See if this team effort can allow his inner wheels to turn and re-focus on his own inner dilemmas, with the presentation of yourself as a partner in solution-finding.

I don't know if any of this will help or be applicable in your situation. All I can say is that this is what I longed for and never received in my situation.

[lovemyson]

Douglas,

Thank you for your reply. It helped alot. I am not ready to throw the towel in yet. I would like to think I do not make him feel inadequete (sp) but I know that I lose my patience quite a bit when I walk around the house and see his disorganized ways and half finished projects. But thanks to your advise, I will try harder.

[mskris]

Dear All:

Reading this thread has me wondering about my husband. He has Tourette's Syndrome, that I know. Our son, age 8, has both TS and ADHD. I'm wondering if my husband has the ADHD/ADD as well and we've not realized it.

We've been married 15 yrs. and had trouble in the beginning, but managed to muddle through and things have been relatively good for 10 yrs. However, I've found myself withdrawing from him for various reasons, especially physically. In fact, I just made an appointment for myself for some counseling to see what the underlying causes might be.

But reading this thread made me think that maybe the underlying cause could be that he has undiagnosed/untreated ADD? He is very hard working, but can also be lazy at times. He's never had any job problems and can focus fine at work. He's an architect. BUT, he's addicted to television, sometimes to the detriment of the kids and our relationship. He often "tunes me out" and I resent that. He starts projects at home and takes eons to finish them (however, in his defense, he does work full time and working at home, too, can be exhausting), if he gets to them at all. He's relatively organized at remembering to do things at home (garbage, getting kids ready for school, etc.), yet he leaves stuff all over the house and never seems to have a set place for things. He has a tendency to fly off the handle with the kids, and his method of discipline is to hit (spank), which causes friction between us. He definitely favors our non-adhd child (girl) over our son, and his way of spending time with the kids is to take them to the toy store (which bugs me as there is way too much stuff in our home already). I work full time and make twice as much as he does, so he IS a big help with the kids and around the house in many ways. His communication stinks, though.

We come from opposite ends of the socio-economic spectrum, and that may have something to do with why he acts the way he does sometimes. I'm definitely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but lately, I'm really turned off by him and a lot of what he does makes me quite angry. It could be me (I'm 4 mos pg and the hormones, you know), but things have been going on like this for some time and it's just now starting to come to a head, KWIM?

Any ideas? Can you give me some insight into specific adult ADD behaviors that might help point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Sorry this is so long, but I definitely do NOT want to be a single parent and I want to love my husband again!

Kris

[Douglas]

Kris --

I'm guessing that as an architect, your husband may have significant portions of his workday when he would be able to selectively attend tasks requiring concentration (an adult ADD coping skill) and that he also works with others to whom he can hand off portions of projects, so that there is little failure to complete them. It is true that many adults with ADD mitigate work- or relationship-related stress by indulging in activities requiring little or no real attention (like television). If he were hiding out from you by reading books, I would guess that he is not necessarily ADD --- but if your child has inherited the condition, and your husband is displaying classic ADD behaviors. If he is favoring a non-ADD child, it could be that he is seeing things in the ADD child that make him subconsciously uncomfortable.

It is definitely worth exploring. It could be that you are impatient with him over something within him that he doesn't understand and can't help. Of course, once it comes to light, there is much that you both can do to improve the situation ...

[mskris]

Dear Douglas:

Thanks so much for your reply. I think we may have hit on something here! It could be that I am impatient with him (he often seems overly sensitive and says I criticize him - but then, maybe I do). I am fully willing to accept my part in our problems. I guess I expect a lot from him because of my own work and stress levels. I've just always felt that I was the one "in charge" and if I don't take care of things, they won't get done.

One thing that bothers me a lot is that I'm the one doing all the research/reading/lookups on the adhd for our son; I'm the one doing all the school advocacy, etc. He'll attend meetings at school with me, but I do most of the talking and all the "leg-work." I often feel like I have 3 kids already, which is not conducive to our sexual relations.

Maybe as a man you can give me some insight - my husband often doesn't really communicate with me for days (other than the usual household "shop talk") yet he wants to be intimate - over the years I've explained that I need the emotional connection to feel the physical, and I think he means well, but....Is this just a man-woman thing?? It makes me feel like a "thing" to him rather than a mate.

These are all things I will address to the counselor on my own, but I think we may need to look into the adhd aspect...

DH did well in college, but was in Vocational/Technical High School. He didn't go to college until after we met/married. That's why the first 5 yrs of our marriage were so hard. Once the kids came along, we (I) were able to focus more on them than on us, and it actually helped!

I, too, have thought that maybe he favors our dd because ds is too much like him. I often have to run interference between them, especially because my husband tends to lash out physically (not abuse, but spankings) rather than reasoning or using alternative discipline measures. He does act impulsively in those types of situations. He also gets really bent out of shape over sport events on tv and years ago I had to ask him to restrict his tv sport watching. He did, but it seems to have escalated again. He does not gamble, doesn't drink, isn't violent, etc. REally has no vices! He's a good guy! It's just getting to where I can't stand him!

Thanks for all your support and insight. I will bring this up with the counselor and hopefully, with my husband.

Kris

[Honeysmom]

MsKris, I know you asked for Douglas' opinion since he is a man, but do you mind if I give one too? (I'll take that as a yes)

Women see sex as love, men see a difference between sex and love. For many women being intimate makes you feel good and lead to sex. While men seperate the two. He may show you he loves you in other ways, but sex may just be an activity. Men mean nothing personal, it is just a difference in the thought process. I can see the difference, but I think we are backwards because my Hubby is a cuddler, and I need my personal space. But I can see how you would be frusterated.

[Douglas]

Kris

Let me see if I can offer any perspective, as an ADD man:

1. "my husband often doesn't really communicate with me for days (other than the usual household "shop talk") yet he wants to be intimate" ... this is a standard man-woman problem. honeysmom, above, points out that men have an easier time differentiating sex and love, and when this is the case, it is indeed true that this DOESN'T make you an object in the man's eyes! Women tend to often completely misinterpret this phenomenon, and it's my great pleasure as a man to try to shed light on it!!! PAY ATTENTION, WOMEN! YOU WON'T GET MANY CHANCES TO HEAR THIS ONE!

When a man says little to his partner on an emotional level, yet makes his desire for intimacy clear, the woman tends to assume (as above) that she is an object, not a person. This assumption derives from her dating days, when she was with less mature men who indeed had not yet associated sex with love! and while there are certainly men who do treat their wives as objects and otherwise fail to communicate on anything but a superficial level, THE REAL TRUTH IS OFTEN MORE LIKE THIS:

Since thousands of years before humans developed speech, pair-bonded males have been expressing their inarticulate caring and love for their mates thru sexual expression. In a mature pair-bonded man (trust me in this), the same impulse that urges us to gather a woman up in our arms is the one that informs us of her specialness to us in our wordless inner self. Understand that while many of us are now capable of mastering speech, we males are not as proficient as you non-tripods at voicing our feelings. YOU ARE MORE COMPETENT THAN WE ARE AT THIS, and we are socialized to be embarrassed by our incompetencies. (as a side note, your superior education may subconsciously fuel this trend.) Therefore, when a man is not communicating but is pushing you to intimacy, HE IS TRYING TO COMMUNICATE IN THE ONE WAY HE REALLY KNOWS.

Solution: set aside your feelings about your husband in the context of the household and return briefly to the cave, or the forest clearing at midnight. Resolve, this weekend, to forgive his incompetence and seduce him with all your might. Plan an upcoming evening when you not only can respond to his obvious desire, but to display desire of your own. Give him every opportunity to "communicate," and be sure you're listening, and I'll be you won't feel like an object: I'll bet you begin to sense that he's trying to reach you in his own awkward way. Make him feel accepted in this. Give him the he-won't-know-what-hit-him treatment, and when it's concluded, demonstrate without words but with gestures that he is special and important to you. DO NOT expect him to suddenly gush forth with dialog. But I promise you that he will feel less ill-at-ease about communication after such a moment, and he will at least be pointed toward the road to progress.

2. As to the discrepancy between his work world and home life, here's a personal reflection: while in the workforce, I developed coping strategies to get thru my day, past my periods of inattention and fogginess. There are two great fears a man deals with: 1) being caught, and thought lazy or incompetent, and 2) our own growing awareness that we are not as capable as those around us.

This is EXHAUSTING!!! We not only burn up far more energy living this way, but we must burn still more by cultivating a facade around it --- putting on a strong, capable face. It's no wonder that when he comes home, he just wants some mindless inactivity! I tell you this because I'VE BEEN THERE --- and it broke my heart and made me feel ashamed to be taken to task for it, which my (former) partner did frequently.

3. For the sake of perspective: I only recently learned that the problem which plagued me from age 17 was ADD. A number of doctors called it a number of things, and all I can tell you is that I lived with terrible insecurity and fear of what went on inside me. Many people - bosses, instructors, employees, significant others - would berate me when I slipped, and I was so embarrassed and ashamed when this happened. I did just what your husband did - I withdrew.

But if he indeed is ADD, which seems very likely, there is absolutely no reason to berate him! Would we say to a diabetic, "Oh, what's this insulin nonsense? Stop babying yourself!" As to his half-finished projects, would we say to a man with a broken ankle, "What's wrong with you? Aren't you man enough to run around the block?"

Solution: Regarding his unfinished work and lack of domestic initiative - suggest doing things together! When a task can be shared, invite him to do so, and not with a "chore" mentality but a "togetherness" mindset. Completion is no longer on his shoulders when you take this approach, and he will feel more accepted. And trust me, feeling accepted is one of the biggest things on the adult ADD male's mind.

I hope these thoughts are useful. As an adult ADD male, I have experienced more misunderstanding and unfortunate treatment than I care to recall. It's my pleasure to help others understand what it's like.

[mskris]

Thanks to both of you for replying. I know you're right about his wanting intimacy as his way of communicating his love.

I am going to approach this idea of ADD with him very cautiously because I don't want him to think there's anything "wrong" with him. As for his unfinished projects, I don't nag or ask what's wrong with him; I really try to ignore it as best I can. When he does do a project, he's a perfectionist and I think sometimes that hinders him from completing it to his satisfaction. When he does complete something (these are usually home-improvement projects), they're phenomenal!

As for the advice to seduce him this weekend, I'm going to try to set aside my own feelings and do as you said. Being 4 mos pregnant it might not be as easy, but I'll try. I know he's been feeling neglected (I was pretty sick the first trimester and definitely NOT feeling sexy!).

My counseling appt is set for 11/15 - a little ways off, but it's not a crisis. Maybe some of my own reflecting and your wonderful support will help even before I get there. It already has.

Thanks again for the perspective. I am beginning to believe he is ADD and we've just never known it.

Take care and best wishes.
Kris

[Honeysmom]

Douglas, I am sorry, I did not mean to imply that men see women as objects. I never thought of it that way.

MsKris, I do know that when I approach my hubby about something that may not be all roses, I do try to be as gentle as possible. Sometimes the way we say things can hurt or cause him to be defensive. I have noticed this with just about everyone I know. Good Luck

[Douglas]

Becky, you certainly did not imply this! You are absolutely correct about the male capacity to view sex apart from love --- and frankly, the male gender as a whole earns its reputation for sexual shallowness in youth, during the time when women are first getting impressions of male sexuality.

Few mature men go on viewing their partners as objects as they grow and learn to love. Few immature men ever get past their own wants.

For the ADD man, life is a harsh and cold wind that is constantly assaulting him. Withdrawing or becoming aloof is a common response. Yet there is often tenderness and a desire to connect and feel safe with one's partner not too far below the surface. It's just a matter of reaching until you find it.

[mskris]

This discussion has been very helpful. My dh is very sensitive to any type of criticism, so bringing up any of this is touchy.

In fact, just my saying that I'm unhappy or I think there may be a problem makes him respond defensively. He denies there's any problem and refuses to discuss it. Sometimes I truly think he feels if we don't talk about it, it doesn't exist!

That's why I decided to attend counseling myself alone first, to get a "reality check" about my own perceptions. That way, I'm accepting my role in the relationship and that any "fault" is partly mine. Unfortunately, all my husband sees is my complaint/criticism and that makes him feel responsible for things not being "right."

Even though things have been stable for 10 years, there's always room for improvement, and now with another baby on the way, I'd really like us to be "on the same page."

Does my approach make sense to you all? I fully accept that I may be overreacting to the situation right now due to my hormonal state, but I still think the issues have been there all along and I'm just now feeling them more deeply.

Kris

[Douglas]

Been there, Kris! I can't count the times I've shut out what I perceived to be criticism, or responded too sensitively to my partner's remarks. From her point of view, she was just taking care of business - pointing out things needing to be done, maybe questioning some response of mine - and from my point of view, always defensive and always tainted by inner inadequacy, she was attacking me.

It killed our relationship (well, it was a contributing factor - my older children and their problems did their share of harm) ... and all I can tell you is that we'd have been MUCH better off if my partner had chosen your approach, and had made a real effort to sort out the causes of the problems, rather than picking at the symptoms.

I suspect you'll have some real breakthroughs on your current course. You're wise not to pressure your husband. And you're wise to accept only that part of the problem that you can really do anything about. In the long run, it will take both of you, of course - but what you're doing now is definitely a loving response.

D