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Post by JohnBark on Feb 3, 2004 9:22:06 GMT -5
Anyone see any problem giving my DS is entire day's dose of Omega-3 fish oil in the morning, instead of splitting it up for 3 doses a day? His total dose would be 1350 EPA and 900 DHA for one day. The more I think about it, the easier it would be on all of us to give it all in the morning.
Any thoughts?
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Post by ohmama on Feb 3, 2004 15:07:30 GMT -5
Three times a day is better. Sorry, it's not susposed to be easy.
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lisle
Full Member
Posts: 142
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Post by lisle on Feb 3, 2004 15:24:27 GMT -5
Hi,
Fat soluble so it doesn't technically matter though it depends on why you are using it. Pfeiffer told me to give it all at night. that surprised me at first. I worry about it causing stomach distress so I do break it up to twice a day. How did you arrive at those figures for EPA and DHA, by the way? I am still struggling with how much of each to give.
lisle
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Post by JohnBark on Feb 3, 2004 16:58:39 GMT -5
Carlson's Omega-3 Fish Oil has 800 EPA and 500 DHA per 1 teaspoon for 6.7 fl oz or 40 servings
And Nordic Naturals Omega-3 has 450 EPA and 300 DHA per 1/2 teaspoon for 4 fl oz. or 48 servings.
I try to keep my DS DHA above 750. I arrived at this number from suggestions from other parents on this board.
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Madison
Member
Tomorrow is another day............
Posts: 90
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Post by Madison on Feb 3, 2004 20:35:43 GMT -5
Hi,
I too split it into twice a day. I sometimes DREAD that walk to the kitchen on that after school dose but if I don't homework is impossible. She proably should be doing Omega's 3 times a day but I'm sticking with twice a day. It's hard enough as it is remembering which ones she takes and getting them together. I'm too trying to make it as simple as possible.
take care...madison
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Post by ohmama on Feb 3, 2004 22:05:37 GMT -5
My reasoning on giving this 3 times a day is this....
It is so important to use the antioxidants along with the Omega 3. I give these at the same time (to protect the brain from free radicals) vitamin C which is water soluble, Vitamin E, and Carnitine, for help with fatty acid transportation. I give all this and more after every meal.
Your brain is the most vulnerable target of free radicals, the experts say. One reason is that the brain generates more free radicals than other bodily tissue, because it uses so much oxygen and is the fattiest organ in the body. Fat is the favorite breeding ground for free radicals. Oxygen reacts with fat molecules in ways that generate free radicals (a process called oxidation) which leaves the fat oxidized or, in a word, rancid.
I think if you only give the omega 3 and not the antioxidants you open yourself up to this danger and do not get the best possible results of using the omega 3. It's a balancing act. These things all work together. Since the cell membrane is made mostly of fat, Vitamin E stays in or near the cell membrane. Vitamin C is best at acting in the watery cytoplasm inside the cell, as well as the mitochondria. I think you need to keep the cells bathed in this all the time. That would require giving it spaced to 3 times a day for best results.
Sorry, I know I tend to go on a bit.
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Post by catatonic on Feb 4, 2004 3:48:37 GMT -5
We split our vitamins into a morning and an evening dose. (There's no practical way to give vitamins in the middle of the day with school, plus it's not worth the resistance from my son to try and gain his cooperation more than twice a day.) While Omega-3, as a fatty nutrient, will not be urinated out in the same way excess water-soluble vitamins are, any excess not utilized by the brain is simply processed by the body like any other fat. In other words, a lot of it will go through the gut and out the b*tt. We do 100IU of Vitamin E with each dose of Omega-3 and would use Vitamin C at the same time as well except that we are still struggling to find a Vitamin C that my boy doesn't react to. I believe that 3 doses are ideal, but 2 are acceptable.
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Post by Kimmers on Feb 4, 2004 14:40:16 GMT -5
Do the antioxidants need to be given separately with each dose of Omega 3, or is getting it all in a multi-vitamin acceptable enough?
Kimmers
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Post by ohmama on Feb 4, 2004 15:46:08 GMT -5
The multi vitamin I use does not give enough of what is needed for the dose/amount of omega 3 we are using so it is added along with the boost of other antioxidant vitamins. My omega dose is probably more than the average so I give 100 IU Vitamin E and 500mg Vitamin C with each dose of omega 3 in addition to the multi vitamin. Because the Vitamin C is water soluble it is necessary to give this each time rather than just once a day.
I also give cal/mag in 3 doses and B Complex (once a day) to both boys and some amino acids to the one boy who is not taking meds. I think the antioxidants should be in proportion to the dose of omega 3 as the omega 3 can deplete these.
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Post by Kimmers on Feb 4, 2004 15:52:51 GMT -5
Okay, maybe this is a dumb question...  How do you figure the amount of Vit. C and E to be giving in proportion to the Omega 3...is it like so many mg. of C and E for so much DHA and so much EPA etc... Kimmers |
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Post by ohmama on Feb 4, 2004 18:06:41 GMT -5
Kimmers,
I don't think there is anything carved in stone to calculate this. Much of what I am doing with amounts is from bits and pieces I've gathered from reading all my books and I kind of put it together myself. It just seems to be logical from what I've learned about the fatty acids and antioxidants, etc. They've become an obsession with me I'm afraid. Maybe I have OCD?
Anyway, the amounts of the antioxidant vitamins I give are based on 5 - 7 grams (5000 - 7000mg) of Omega 3 per day.
Vitamin C total per day... 1800 mg or more in cold season.
Vitamin E total per day... 450 IU
Split into 3 doses. Breakfast, after school snack, and dinner. I have seen my boys swallow up to 8 pills at a time. They have turned it into some kind of contest to see who can do the most. I guess I'm lucky they don't mind taking them.
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Post by JohnBark on Feb 4, 2004 21:38:44 GMT -5
i guess my 100 IU of E and 250 mg of C 3 times a day with a 1/2 teaspoon of Omega-3 Liquid isn't enough of E or C, based off of your last post.
Should I increase both?
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Post by catatonic on Feb 5, 2004 7:50:25 GMT -5
John, the amounts you're giving now are comparable to what I am using for my boy (9 yrs, 85 lbs).
My older boys take slightly different supplements...their multi-vitamin contains 100IU Vitamin E per capsule. It's a two-a-day. I don't need to give them any additional Vitamin E at all. Their multi also contains 250mg Vitamin C per capsule, so again I don't give them a separate C tablet. I merely give them, in both the morning and evening, a fish oil capsule and a multi-vitamin...then in the evening, I add their magnesium as well. It's very easy, and making it easy is the reason I picked a very comprehensive multi-vitamin in the first place. If it's not easy for them, they simply won't stick with taking their supplements on a regular, long-term basis.
I got my advice on Vitamin E supplementation from Laura Stevens (who wrote "12 Effective Ways to Help Your ADD/ADHD Child"). She reviewed my supplement plan and recommended using 100IU of Vitamin E per day. For a child, even a child taking Omega-3, this is enough and the body really won't utilize more. I switched to 100IU twice a day when we increased my boy's Omega-3, but there really isn't much need to go higher.
According to the National Academy of Science, which publishes information on Daily Reference Intakes (replacing the old RDA), the Upper Tolerable Limit for Vitamin E for a child 4 - 8 years old is 300mg per day. This translates to between 300 and 447 IU, depending on what type of Vitamin E you use. A child between 9 and 13 years should not exceed 600mg per day (600IU - 894IU, depending on type). Upper Tolerable Limits are highest safe level before side effects begin to appear. With Vitamin E, the side effect probably of most immediate concern is increased tendency to hemorrhage.
Interestingly enough, research done on the immune support functions of Vitamin E found that it provided its optimum benefits at approximately 200IU per day. Doses of 800IU were NOT as effective. (Effectiveness was calculated via blood and skin tests that measured subjects' immune responses to various provocations.) Vitamin E seems to be a case where more is not better.
The upper tolerable limits for Vitamin C are 650mg for a child 4 - 8 years old and 1,200mg for a child 9 - 13 years old. With Vitamin C, any "side effects" you see are likely to be gastro-intestinal in nature, such as diarrhea or belly ache, much as you would with magnesium. And, just as you would with magnesium, if you have problems, you can simply back down the dose until the side effects disappear.
Research done on Vitamin C indicates that if you take more than 200mg daily, your kidneys begin to eliminate it at an increased rate and your digestive tract stops absorbing it so that the end result is that the amount of Vitamin C in your blood will NOT increase, no matter how much you take. (Researchers have tested this in amounts up to 2,500mg and blood levels don't increase any further than they do at 200mg.) HOWEVER...this does not address the possibility that concentrations of Vitamin C in OTHER tissues increases, despite the fact that blood concentrations remain stable.
The consensus among nutritionists and nutritionally oriented physicians appears to be that 500mg daily provides sufficient benefits.
But as OhMama says, none of this is carved in stone. Just get your dose "in the zone" and pray.
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Post by JohnBark on Feb 5, 2004 9:13:21 GMT -5
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Post by Kimmers on Feb 5, 2004 12:11:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the info. One more question...what do you think of those chewable Vit. C tablets? I have considered getting those instead...
Kimmers
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