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Post by sierra on Nov 7, 2003 16:19:53 GMT -5
Doh!
There I was going on about how omega 3's are anti-inflammatories and blood thinners on the headache thread and boom! It hit me.
Bean Sprout gets nosebleeds that would make you think they did a remake of Psycho in his bathroom. Or wherever they hit. I asked a while back on adhd.com if Concerta could be causing this. The answer on the forum and from the doc was a pretty emphatic NO.
But he takes omega 3 supplements and extra magnesium too. Plus a couple other odds and ends that don't have an anti-inflammatory effect. Has anyone noticed an increase of nosebleeds after a few months of Omega 3 supplementation? This problem's been going on a couple years. He's been taking the omega 3s for about 2 years.
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Post by catatonic on Nov 7, 2003 19:32:47 GMT -5
It's NOT the magnesium. Fish oil can, although this is NOT common, cause bleeding -- especially nosebleeds and bleeding gums. You may want to try flax seed oil instead or try switching to a lower dose of a more concentrated form of fish oil. There is some fairly decent information about this exact problem on the UCSF med school web site. Take a look at it here: pharmacy.ucsf.edu/ccsc/medq/omega3/ |
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1Madison
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Tomorrow is another day..........
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Post by 1Madison on Nov 7, 2003 20:33:46 GMT -5
Oh my goodness! My boy the other morning for no reason woke up with a NOSE BLEED! He's never had that before and it really scared me some!! I really didn't think it was the Omega's but now I'm REALLY wondering! He's been taking them for about 3 weeks or so when I can get him to take them. I do try for mornings if nothing else. I did ask the doctor about the nose bleeds and he said 'allergy's can cause them with the nose being so DRY and winter coming on.' He doesn't know about the kids doing the omega route. I didn't even think that would have a thing to do about it. He takes those Neuro DHA's and lecthin and multi and magnesium. Those DHA'S really help him alot and I sure HOPE he doesn't have to stop taking them. Now my girl has been taking salmon oil tablets for over a year now and there's been NO problem at all with her taking them. It makes me wonder could those DHA'S might be a little too much for him?? Boy....KEEP me posted if yours goes through anymore nose bleeds. Take care..Madison  |
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Post by sierra on Nov 8, 2003 0:09:00 GMT -5
Thanks for the website Catatonic! Real interesting reading. I've always preferred my omega 3's right off the grill cooked with lemon slices and rosemary. But wild salmon isn't availablle all year round.
My sprouts don't like the taste of fish so the fish oil capsule supplements have been the route we've taken. The formulation we use gives a "serving" of omega 3s in 2 one gram capsules.
I had a nose blood vessel that gushed when I was a kid. The doc eventually cauterized it. I talked about this possibly being hereditary with Bean Sprout. The doc said even if it is a weak blood vessel wall they don't cauterize blood vessels in the nose anymore because of potential side effects like numbness and nerve damage.
I was glad to hear that. I wouldn't want to put Bean Sprout through that experience. It wasn't pleasant!
We may be overdoing the omegas though because as well as fish oil in the morning we alternate evening primrose oil and flax seed oil at night.
I'll mess around with what and when and see if it seems to help.
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Post by catatonic on Nov 8, 2003 8:35:17 GMT -5
Is it possible to back off the anti-inflammatories and anything else that has an anti-coagulant effect? I know my son does so well on the fish oil that the thought of messing that up really scares me. It was so hard to get him to a point where he is generally manageable and not too big a hyper case at school.
If you use the big fish oil capsules that are 1,000mg with relatively low DHA/EPA (like 120/180) you might try one of the smaller, more concentrated types. Reducing the overall fish oil quantity could help.
These concentrated DHA capsules did NOT work for us. We tried DHA-250 where you only take 2 tiny capsules each day and get a total of 500DHA and 110EPA and within about 5 days my son's behavior had regressed noticeably. (Maybe I just should have given him 3 or 4 capsules??) We use the gigantic cheapo Now brand Omega-3 and it's great. But we don't have the bleeding issue so (thankfully!!!) I don't even have to think about changing.
One other thought...does your son take any asthma medication? One of my boys (not the ADHD'er) requires Singulair for his asthma, and one of its side effects as listed on the physician's package insert is a tendency to increased bleeding or increased bruising. I notice that whenever he starts up again on his Singulair for allergy season, he tends to get nosebleeds. They're not bad and not frequent, but they only happen when he starts the Singulair.
The asthma maintenance medication "Flovent" also has increased bleeding/bruising as a side-effect (listed in physician's package insert).
The asthma medication "Serevent" may increase the tendency to gastro-intestinal bleeding. (BTW, if you use Serevent, see your doctor. GalaxoSmithKline is phasing out this drug entirely under pressure from the FDA due to very serious concerns about its safety.)
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1Madison
New Member
Tomorrow is another day..........
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Post by 1Madison on Nov 8, 2003 12:38:58 GMT -5
Hello All,
This question is for Catatonic. I'm wanting to stop the Neuro DHA/EPA and go to a regular fish oil supplement. He's TERRIBLE about taking pills!!!! All the fish oil gel caplets at so called Wal-mart are HUGE!! Do you know where I can buy fish oil in small gel caplets like the Neuro DHA? Thanks...Madison
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Post by Allanque on Nov 8, 2003 13:00:23 GMT -5
Just a random note:
Since nosebleeds tend to be worse and happen more often in the winter when the heaters are on, could that be contributing to it?
When I was on Accutane (for acne - it's evil), the dermatologist told me to make sure to keep the inside of my noise moisturized. He recommended KY Jelly. I was amused, but it worked.
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Post by catatonic on Nov 8, 2003 13:32:50 GMT -5
Madison - Those fish oil capsules are pretty awful, aren't they? We use the giant kind, too, but my son doesn't complain because he hates his B vitamin so much everything else looks good in comparison. Have you tried the "Now" brand of DHA-250? They're nice and smal and each capsule has 250mg DHA and 100mg EPA. We tried these for a while but for some reason didn't have that great of results (maybe because he was only getting half the EPA of his old supplement?) We went back to the jumbo fish oils. Our health food store, although it carries practically every other "Now" product, doesn't have the DHA-250 type, but you can buy it on-line from my favorite cheap vitamin source www.herbaladvisor.com For about $8.50 you get a bottle of 120 capsules. These are fish oil in a slightly more concentrated form. Hope this helps. Cat |
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Post by sierra on Nov 8, 2003 13:36:43 GMT -5
He has them 2-3 times a month year-round. Sometimes more often. When it's a gusher it takes forever for enough coagulation to happen to get the darned bleed stopped. Sometimes 20 minutes or more. No asthma or allergy meds. The boy is healthy as a horse. I generally give him tylenol if he has a fever instead of ibuprofen.
Maybe we are overdoing it with all the different omega oils.
Edited to add he's using Aquaphor to kind of seal up his nose and moisturize it. Too soon to tell if it helps. If he gets through December without a gusher I'll have a party. I'm tired of cleaning up the "Psycho" movie set every few weeks.
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Post by catatonic on Nov 9, 2003 7:59:57 GMT -5
Let's hope the Aquaphor will stop those "Psycho" effects. It doesn't sound like too much fun. My neighbor's girl used to get nosebleeds like that (up until about age 12 - puberty - where they quit just like someone threw a switch). The first time I saw one, I was sure she was going to bleed to death. She's just staring at me with her hands cupped under her nose and completely filled with blood and dripping between her fingers and the mailman is yelling at me do I need 9-1-1. I stuck a bag of frozen peas on her face and made her squeeze her nose shut and it quit, but we had the bloodstains on our mailbox until the day we replaced it.
If nothing helps and you believe the fish oil to be responsible, flax seed oil is a decent option because it is NOT associated with any tendency towards bleeding. In fact, it appears to have the effect of reducing bleeding (it's often recommended for treatment of extremely heavy menstrual flow).
However, fish oil is a superior source of Omega-3 and research indicates that you need to take TEN TIMES as much flax oil to achieve the same impact on blood concentrations of the long-chain fatty acids (the PUFA's).
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Post by Allanque on Nov 9, 2003 12:16:45 GMT -5
Aquaphor is our friend. I have to use it on my lips during the winter.
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Post by sierra on Nov 9, 2003 16:59:33 GMT -5
If nothing helps and you believe the fish oil to be responsible, flax seed oil is a decent option because it is NOT associated with any tendency towards bleeding. In fact, it appears to have the effect of reducing bleeding (it's often recommended for treatment of extremely heavy menstrual flow). I don't know if fish oil is entirely responsible. He could have inherited this nose bleed problem from me. He's inherited enough other less than desirable traits! But I should have started thinking whether fish oil may be making the situation worse before now. I wonder now what would have happened over time if the doc hadn't cauterized the blood vessel in my nose. I can sure understand why my mother was at her wits end. I remember once waking up in the middle of the night with my nose going like a faucet. Believe I was 8. It wasn't too long after that the deed was done. At any rate puberty didn't help Bean Sprout like it did your neighbor. |
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Post by Kimmers on Nov 10, 2003 11:33:16 GMT -5
My husband used to get nosebleeds like that for no reason at all. He told me he would be doing something like playing basketball or even just sitting watching t.v. and it would just start. He got them all through high school even and it wasn't until he was about a junior-senior that they just all of a sudden quit. His parents never did anything about it although at the time he could have gotten it cauterized like you were talking about. My son has had a few already and I really think it is an inherited thing because he had gotten them even before we put him on the Omega 3. Just a thought...I am kind of sad to hear that they don't cauterize anymore because me and my husband talked about it the first few times our son got nosebleeds that if he has a problem with it like my husband that we were going to have it done right away. My husand said it was a huge pain the in the you-know-what getting them all the time. Especially in front of the whole school!
I hope you get to the bottom of it!
Kimmers
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Post by catseye on Nov 10, 2003 11:45:36 GMT -5
I didnt read all the responces so forgive me if I repeat... Sd had nose bleeds sometimes, once we put in the humidifier they stopped... Without the humidifier on the "stuff" can get hard and crusty then when bumped can cause nose to bleed...
So for us the humidifier helped... Good luck
cat
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1Madison
New Member
Tomorrow is another day..........
Posts: 18
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Post by 1Madison on Nov 10, 2003 17:52:03 GMT -5
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Hello Everybody,