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Post by HooDunnit on Aug 14, 2004 12:52:46 GMT -5
It seems that using calculators to do simple math, leads to a poorer ability to later do complex math. I suppose this isn't too surprising. www.apa.org/releases/math.html |
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Post by Allanque on Aug 14, 2004 15:37:12 GMT -5
I can't add two numbers twice and get the same answer both times. Unless I'm really really lucky. I have to either write it down and work it out or use fingers or the calculator.
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Post by eaccae on Aug 14, 2004 18:05:30 GMT -5
That is definitely true. But - I can't help but wonder what the results would have been back in the day (when I was growing up) when calculators weren't allowed in school - not even the SATs? I am guessing that they would probably have similar results.
Tiny case study. Both my sister and I are Korean and share so many similar traits (including add). She spent the first 12 years of her life in Korea, I spent 1 year. She is a math whiz! I cannot do math to save my LIFE!!! But she was taught math very differently than they taught math in the US. She still thinks they way we were taught here in the US is weird.
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Post by rosyred45 on Aug 14, 2004 18:52:28 GMT -5
Eaccae, how was she taught? That sounds interesting...I know not everyone is taught the same, but I'm curioius as to how she was. Mikey and Tara have to see concrete objects to start them off with problems or problem solving, but once they understand the concept, as long as they have the facts down, they have it Modified to say, I don't like waiting at McDonalds because they can't figure change with out looking at the screen >:(Throw them for a loop, add a nickle and a penny, really mess them up  ;D |
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Post by eaccae on Aug 14, 2004 18:55:52 GMT -5
I don't quite know how to explain it. Do you remember the infomercial awhile back that said it would teach you how to mulitply and divide numbers - no matter how many digits - in seconds? She was taught very much like that. DH was taught that way too - in his elementary school. We live near where he went to school and they don't teach that way anymore. Both of them are unbelievable - esp. at complex math.
(I don't know what's worse - waiting at McDonald's for change or playing Yahtzee with me ;D - I guess waiting at McDonald's - for the principle of it!)
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Post by camismom on Aug 16, 2004 11:47:43 GMT -5
I think alot of kids Math problems today is they are pushing too much on them too soon. I remember my dd starting on things in elementary that I din't start on until one to two years later. She is in her second year of Pre-algebra because she didn't quite "get it" last year. Although she passed, her teacher and I both felt it would be best for her to take it again this year.
I do agree that allowing them to use a calculater early on in just basic Math adds (no pun intended) to the problem. If you don't learn how to add or subtract without help, then you will never make it later.
I agree with Kaiti... but it's not just McDonald's, it's every where there is a young one trying to make change. They can't do it without the help of the register!
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Post by Linda on Aug 16, 2004 11:55:42 GMT -5
I have to admit...I have days that I am really 'scattered brained" and out comes the calculator!! |
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Post by AnneM on Aug 16, 2004 12:17:14 GMT -5
In the schools here we have "maths with calculator" and "maths without calculator" ... both seem to be treated as almost "different" subjects... What really confuses me though is that all the additions, multiplications, divisions and minuses are now done in a COMPLETELY different way than when I was growing up ... we were always taught to add the first digit (i.e. if doing 25 x 25 ... we would first multiply 5x5 which makes 25 so we would then add the 2 to the next calculation ... these days they treat the "2" in 25 as 2 x 10 and I think you then add 20 to something or other .... well .. whatever it is TOTALLY different and I have not been able to help Sam in this at all ... in fact all I have ever done is confuse him!!  |
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Post by Linda on Aug 16, 2004 12:23:28 GMT -5
Boy Isn't that the truth!!!I remember when Paul was in elementary school and he would bring his homework home and I would look it over and say...I hope to h*** you know this work cause I sure don't!!!His teachers were teaching in an entirely different way that what I was taught! |
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Post by adhdtimes4 on Aug 16, 2004 17:32:13 GMT -5
We're like Anne - we have 'calculator active' and 'calculator inactive' parts of tests and instruction. Face it, calculators are an integral part of life, especially on the job. Those of us who can't use them are at a loss. Still it's important to know the basics.
I was taught 'new math' way back in the 60's. My parents thought it was wierd, but I thought it taught us how the math worked. My kids were taught more traditionally, it seems. They had to memorize facts and later on, formulas. There is a great emphasis on mental math and the dreaded word problems. But they also have always done a lot of hands on. And they all know how to use a calculator. The boys are all pretty good at math.
All this said, today a cashier cleared her register before she gave me change, and I had to tell her - and her supervisor!!! - how much they owed me. That's ridiculous.
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Post by rosyred45 on Aug 17, 2004 10:47:45 GMT -5
Oh Kayla, it is ridiculus. When I have been out to the club counting the money, I have found myself getting caught up and all of a sudden I have no idea where I was counting wise  One thing I should say I don't not like calculators. They are very helpful tools when pu tin responsible hands. BUT when the kids that are in 3rd grade can't tell you off the top of their heads what 6+9 is. :oThat is where I have the problem. They have this new everyday math concept that was put into the district as a whole. Tara's teacher didn't count half the scores she should have because the kids didn't understand the concepts that were being taught. She spent the first half of the year trying to catch up the kids that didn't have it last year. One second grade did it as a trial, so the others had not a clue.  Let alone the parents trying to explain something that we didn't even understand-even with a hand out w/answers on it. I went back and told the teacher I was going to be teaching Tara by rote because that is how she learns best. When we could understand the other concept, we'll delve into it then. And she agreed with me She said over half of the class was going to be failing math if she didn't modify the lessons or eliminated them all together. |
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Post by eaccae on Aug 17, 2004 11:16:50 GMT -5
Now - I LOVE calculators - because without them I am in tourble. With that said - calculators are wonderful TOOLs that should only be allowed once the rote learning process is over. Calulators in elementary and secondary school - in my opinion - shouldn't be an option. Once, though, the processes are learned - I see no reason why calculators can't be used as a tool as more and more complex math is being done. And I do think it should be allowed on the SATs. When I took them - they weren't - and I know that I would definitely have made fasater progress if I didn't have to rely on my very slow processing skilils - I KNEW how to do the math - I was (and am) just very, very SLOW!
For example - anyone here every try to do calc and precalc without a calculator?
The kids these days are taught more hands on - at least in CT. It is driving my mother-in-law crazy because they DON'T have any charts to memorize, etc. But I think in the long run they are really getting to the meat of the process. Although - it does take them longer to get there. I.E., DS is entering 4th. My mother-in-law thinks he should know all of his timestables and division, etc. They HAVE been working on multiplication and division in 3rd - BUT they have been doing more process oriented stuff - no timestables. So in the short term - it APPEARS that they are behind - but in the long run I think it is going to pay off big time.
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Post by rosyred45 on Aug 17, 2004 12:43:39 GMT -5
That's what this everyday math is supposed to be doing too, but when they send home homework the kids don't understand, the parents don't understand, and the sheet they send home is more confusing, it's a pain. Tara and another girl that goes to SACC have times tables that I printed out for them. After they had them, BOOM, they had high scores. I feel bad because the teacher was so frustrated with the system KNOWING that the kids didn't understand it made it that much worse. I guess I'm just more old school learning  |
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Post by Linda on Aug 17, 2004 13:18:09 GMT -5
I think my point is...Paul always understood what he was supposed to do...It WAS ME who didn't get it!!!  |
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Post by AnneM on Aug 17, 2004 13:29:37 GMT -5
I think my point is...Paul always understood what he was supposed to do...It WAS ME who didn't get it!!! Same here Linda ... I would say "WHY ON EARTH are you adding that to that etc?!" and Sam would say "Because that is the way my teacher taught us.. " ... Somehow the answer would be the SAME but the calculation was totally different!! ... UGH!! ... (and I would depart still scratching my head in confusion!)... Kayla I agree that IS ridiculous havnig to tell the cashiers what your change SHOULD be ... but what a sign of the times eh? (and not a good one unfortunately!) But I also agree with eaccae ... I also have to admit I LOVE the calculator ... it has taken all of the pain out of complicated sums!! .. I admit it... I nowadays always grab the calculator whenever anything looks a bit "UGH" !! ... but I also agree that the calculator should only come into use when the rote learning process is over! |
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