Need advice...

[Amsmom]

My dear friend Veronika,
I'm so sorry things are so rough still. You know that I have supported you and agreed with your decision for foster care from the beginning. Please don't let Keith make you feel bad by saying that he doesn't want to come home. I'm sorry to say this, but remember how manipulative he has been from day one with both you and Ron. This is just another attempt to shock you. It sounds like Keith was an angry child way before coming into your house. Has anyone mentioned conduct disorder with him? Some of his behaviors and attitudes bring up that question. Please just remember that you are a FANTASTIC MOM to both Johnathon and Keith. They don't realize it now, but they need this structured therapeutic lifestyle. My love and prayers to you and Ron.

P.S. You are also a WONDERFUL FRIEND
(I don't know why these kiss smilies are not kissing, but you get the idea!!!!)

GSD Mommy, I didn't realize you has a similar situation. My prayers to you as well. You certainly have your hands full. You, too, are an excellent mom and it's evident how very much you love your children.

Counting2ten, Whew! I thought my being a single mom of a 7 yo ADHD/bipolar son was rough. His "father" also has not called him in months and months. This absolutely adds to our kid's moods and behavior. These "men" do not deserve to be called parents. My prayers and hopes for you, as well.

[Mishamom]

Veronika...I think it would be interesting to see how things went if the two boys were placed in separate foster homes with all of the counseling. It sounds like your biological son has lost his sense of self to his step-brother. I imagine he needs to retrieve that again before he will be able to function in a home situation with Keith again.

One of my bosses has a son that is ADHD/OD (IMO possibly bi-polar). He is 14 now. His father is very wealthy so every option that has been available has been used. He has been to see Dr. Amen and some of the best child psychiatrists specializing in ADHD/OD. His father and step-mother have taken parenting skills from child psychologists for years but still no improvement. In fact it just gets worse.

Admittedly their home situation is quite bad. The boys father has a ton of issues himself. He is ADD with suspected Fetal Alcohol Syndrome which limits his mental abilities. His fatherhimself doesnt have good social skills and while he loves his son is literally all but incapable of being unselfish.

When his son was 12 he was sent to a boot camp style group in Idaho for 5 weeks. This wasn't the kind of boot camp where they scream at the kids, do forced marches and lots of pushups. It was a very simple idea. Take these kids out into the wilderness with qualified guides and therapists. Get them away from all external distractions and familial relationships. It is much easier and faster to get to the kids real self in this manner. This allows the counselors to get to see much more much faster for evaluation purposes. It also put personal responsibility on the kids. If they wanted to stay warm then keep the wood supplies up and the wood on the fire. If you want to eat keep track of your pack and supplies and prepare your food. If you want clean socks then go clean them.

After 5 weeks there we were able to get a very good evaluation and recommendations on followup school and treatment. The boy then went to a school in North Carolina called Stone Mountain School. It has been a live saver for this kid. It has a level system of rewards/punishments. Everything is laid out to the child and parents in writing in advance. There are no arbitrary decisions for reward or punishment so no child can claim to be treated unfairly.

It is also a style of school that involves a great deal of out doors. Their cabins to do not have electricity until they reach the upper level. So again...want to be warm...keep the wood in the stove. Adults do stay in the cabins with them at all time. They have 'chores' to do that they are rewarded for completing or lose privileges for not completing. Self respect and respect for piers is a strong theme. The kids have professional counseling, a psychiatrist for medication needs and a great school for education and tutors to help those catch up that have fallen behind before coming.

Every time I see this child on home visits I am amazed by this new person I see. I used to have to take knives from him and physically wrestle him to the floor in our business offices in the past. No I hear 'yes ma'am' and no ma'am' and offers to help. Please and may I are now popular.

One of the more recent visits he was overheard lecturing two of his cousins (who could benefit from this school as well) about showing respect for their mother regardless of whether or not she had earned it that particular moment. He explained to them that showing respect for their mother was something they did for themselves more than her. Granted this was totally lost on those two but it was nice to hear!

This boy will probably graduate from this program this Spring. He is on track to reach Level 4 in December and then Eagle is just after that. During Eagle they get their own room, electricity, television and video games to begin working on adjusting back and setting self limits on acitivities. After he graduates he will likely move to a more traditional boarding school since the home situation is unable to improve due to his father's limits.

But we're all very happy that he seems to have a chance at a life none of us were able to see for him before. I know all of these options are very expensive but I just wanted to share an experience that has been positive and has a good outlook for the future.

I agree that not all children benefit from being at home exclusively. Sometimes the only real change comes with some distance and the ability to do it independently. I admire you for your courage Veronika. The choices you make are best for your children regardless of what anyone else thinks. You're the only one walking in your shoes so you walk them where you think they need to go.

[jdmom]

That school sounds wonderful! It is often hard for parents to handle their difficult children because of all the emotions that get in the way. That school sounds like it's got every aspect down pat! Teaching them responsibilty for their own actions, and I love the idea of "working your way up to normalcy" and preparing them for home again! A lot of parents don't want to send their kids to the boot camps that you hear so much about, it seems so extreme....

[mom2tj]

Veronika OMG what can I say.... you will be in my prayers I will pray that God helps you thought it and I will ask him to send you an angel because you sure deserve one.... I will never again complain about my life without thinking of you..... hugs to you.....

[lofo]

Veronika,
First, I want to say all things work together for good if you give it God. Do you have spiritual beliefs?

I too think separating the boys would do a great deal of good. It sounds like your younger son could be possibly managable if he were separated from the older brother. You have welcomed a full time counselor for your younger son, his name is Keith. The main problem with this combination is that the parents are now out of the picture.

Schools separate groups of rowdy children who gang up on authority to divide the power play they build up in their minds. Even war strategists practice " Divide and conquer."

I pray God will give you peace, knowlegde, and understanding so that you may effectively bring your boys back home someday.
Lofo

[weskie]

Hi Veronika,

With Mishamom and Iofo, I am thinking that separating Johnathon and Keith might really be a good idea. You and your husband were so generous in adopting Keith, and then he made the situation worse! This is not the payback you deserve! My heart goes out to you as you struggle to cope with this difficult situation. I'll be thinking of you!

[GSDMommy]

Mishamom,

I was very interested in the Stone Mountain school and was hoping it would work. The big exclusionary behavior list was what got me. The big one they can't accept is someone who is aggressive or violent. They will take people who have histories of it, but only on a case-by-case basis. That was disappointing because their assessment test had my hopes up!!

Thanks for sharing about it, I wish it was more of an option.

[Veronika]

You are all very helpful!! Thank you soooooo much!!

We have meetings with the Foster Parents and our workers every few weeks. We thought that at the first meeting we we would discuss the fact that the boys are in the same foster home. When I brought that up during the meeting, the foster parents worker said she thinks it's a good idea to keep the boys together.
At first I was mad, but after hearing what she had to say, it made sense.

She said that the first time we put the boys in care, they were in seperate homes. As soon as they got home all hell broke loose again. She's aware of the pull Keith has on Johnathon, and so is everyone else. But, it's better for them to stay in the same home because they have to learn how to live together (and with us). The goal is to have both kids understand how to live together under the same roof.

Keith will have a harder time than Johnathon....that's been proven in the past. When we brought the boys home the first time, Johnathon was home for 3 months, and Keith lasted 5 weeks.

I pray everynight that one day Johnathon will wake up!
He has to see what is going on. We knew he would need intense theropy for his issues, but we didn't think things would get worse when we agreed to let Keith live with us. We were dumb enough to think that the boys would find comfort in eachother....well Johnathon did...and unfortunately he hasn't opened his eyes to the real Keith yet.
I know one day he will see it. And the best advice I would have for Keith is to RUN!!! RUN AS FAST AS HE CAN!!!

Johnathon is doing much better in school now since he had a meds change. Pat (the foster mom) told me he's bringing home B's and on one math test he got a C....which is a HUGE deal!!! He could never finsh a test, let alone complete it and get marked on it! I spoke to him a few days ago, and he's really proud of himself!! He also told me he knows he will have a bad report card. Oh well, he's doing better now, and that's what matters. We can see that he's trying, and he wants to come home. That's the whole point!!!

Keith on the other hand is up to the same bulls**t!! Last week Pat rented them the XBox system, for one week. We have one here, but she said if they want to play the system they have to earn it. Good idea!
That night I spoke to Keith on the phone. He told me she rented them the XBox, and he also said he had a hard time finding 2 games to go along with it. He said he didn't get Halo because he knew he was not allowed to play it. (See the pattern here? All about him, not Johnathon. Keith picked the games.)

So I asked him what games he got and he said Defender and Indiana Jones. The controllers didn't work so Pat took the boys back to the store to exchange them. The man at the store took 2 new controllers off the shelf and gave them to Keith. Then he went back to the car and went home. Should be a normal evening right? WRONG!!!

After hearing this story from Keith, I spoke to Johnathon. Within 30 seconds Johnathon told me Keith was playing Halo. I said "You must be mistaken, you guys didn't rent Halo." He said "Ya, when Keith went in to exchange the controller, he had Defender in his pocket and changed it for Halo so Pat wouldn't know." I LOST MY MIND!!!! Pat was at a wedding by this time, and I spoke to her husband. He was NOT impressed! He took the system away.

The next morning Pat called me,she was very angry!!
I have never heard her so mad!! She told Keith to pack up the XBox, and it was going back to the store. He slammed a few doors and yelled "What the hell is going on around here?"
I was on the phone at the time. After his fit he came upstairs and asked Pat
"Well can we ATLEAST go outside?"
She said "No, not in the state you're in."
She then asked "Keith why are you in care?"
He said "Because I lie."
She said "And why is the XBox gone now?"
He said "Because I lied."
She said " Do you see a pattern here?" He said "Ya, I know."

This kid is NOT stupid. He knows what he's doing, and continues to do it. Pat was also angry not only because of what Keith did, but Johnathon lost out on playing the game for a week. Johnathon admitted to her that he was going to tell her, and he didn't touch the game. She believed him. But Johnathon is not mad at Keith. Keith is mad at Johnathon for telling me he was playing that game!!!

Keith has been complaining about chest pain for the past month. So Pat took him to the dr, and a heart specialist. The results came back and of course there's nothing wrong with him. We told her that, and she had an idea but had to take him anyway. The heart specialist told Keith his symtoms didn't make sense anyway, and he thinks Keith has more of a psychological problem then a medical problem. He told Pat Keith should spend more time in a counsellors office than a dr's office. He's not the first dr to say that. Keith always acts like there's something wrong with him, for attention. But in the end, he's going to suffer. When there is something wrong, noone will believe him.

Everytime I have talked to Keith he has lied to me. I'm NOT wasting my time anymore. I haven't called him in over a week,and I refuse to. When he was home that's all he did, why would I put up with it now?

To some people this would sound like a "normal" thing for a kid to do. But when you know Keith there's more to it than that.

Thanks for letting me vent! There's so much more going on, but I don't think you want to read a book! Not like you haven't already!!

[Dad2Brooke]

Veronika, I am sorry that Keith continues to cause you and everyone else such grief. I have you all in my prayers and I will say extra for Keith.

Keith needs compassion and understanding, but the problem is his actions drive the very people who want to give it to him away. All you can do is try to help him and be there for him we he needs you.

Remember, Jesus hates the sin but loves the sinner.

Johnathon sounds like he is doing better, and way to go on the grades. I also think he is getting an idea about Keith as well.

I can only imagine how difficult this all is for you, but we are all here for you. ;D

[camismom]

Veronika,

I think Ralph (Dad2Brooke) said it best! I have no advice I can give you , but I can offer up my prayers. You were so kind to open up this site and I want you to know you are appreciated!! You ARE a good mom and are undoubtedly doing your best, so don't let it keep you down! You WILL overcome!

[aimee30]

I have no words of advice, but want to let you know I'm praying for both families. You are both wonderful mothers! Hang in there! Hugs to both of you!!!!

[GSDMommy]

Veronika,

Does Keith call you? My kid-in-kare never calls. He has been in care for now almost 6 months and has called me about 5 times, each time wanting something. He has no urge to talk to us which has the counselor worried at this point. He has lost his privilege of going home two weekends in a row and doesn't call to ask us to visit him or anything. This has had to be built into his behavior contract in order to go home he has to call us at least once a week. He hasn't fulfilled this part more than once since it's inception.

They are talking about the possibility I may have to give him up to the state for him to get more care. This would be a termination of parental rights situation. This has me about in tears. I have to choose to possibly endanger the other children <9,4 and 9 months> and bring him home or give him up and no longer have my oldest. This is NOT the decision to have looking at you going into the holidays, especially the year I have lost my mother

I wish there was a parenting book that covered this situation. I am going to push the state to do a hybrid idea. DSS also has not lived up to the court order and gotten all the testing that was ordered in November. This should be interesting when we go back to court in January. >sigh<.

We are currently under over a foot of snow, thankfully it appears to be melting!!

[finnmom]

GSDMOMMY
I´am so sorry for you, that situation of your´s is a tru hartbreaker I dont know how you can handle it, I wish you all the possible luck, strenght and prayer´s !! You surely have more than your´s handfull!! I know this is no help, but all I have to offer is my support and that you´ll have

Veronica
The same goes with you, my prayers and thought´s with your family. You both make me feel asshemed of my own whining around . I know you have more to face than anyone of us should have to. I also know that you have that strenght in you, to make this for the best, for you, your hubby and your hole family. I wish you well!
Marja

[sierra]

YOW!

Veronika, I had no idea what you are going through with your family. My heart goes out to you, your husband and both your kids. There's got to be a silver lining in this cloud somewhere.

Please. If there is anything I can do to help lighten your load don't hesitate to ask.