'Wonder what will happen?

[StrugglingAgain]

My ds9 is now being weaned off all meds. I called our child psychiatrist and told him that his meds were only lasting 2-3 hours now and this is ridiculous (he's been on them all!). SO, we've weaned off two completely, now we're on the third with only one more after that. He's a loud mouth, lies, laughs at silly things, and has cried every day since we started weaning about a week ago. He's been on meds non-stop since he was four years old and I wasn't sure what symptoms he still had or if there were new ones. I wonder what's going to happen? I have NO doubt whatsoever that my ds needs meds to function, but now I wonder if there's more there than ADHD/ODD? Have any of you had a complete med wash? What did you experience with your children when they were all out of their systems?

[finnmom]

SA, lot´s of lot´s of strenght to you I bet this is going to be hard

I have no experience of that, but I think you´re doing the right thing; weaning him off and re-evaluating him... Good luck

[Linda]

I too think you are doing the right thing. Maybe now you can get to the bottom of things and obtain some peace for your ds and family.

Sorry I can't help you with the med wash....P aul stopped taking his concerta with no ill effects.

Good Luck and keep us updated.

[mskris]

I think this is a great idea, though I realize it will be hard on both of you. Washing out and reevaluating, then trying one med at a time will at least tell you what's working and what isn't. Aren't you the one whose son was on risperdal, focalin, adderall, and wellbutrin? I think I suggested then that you do a washout.

I imagine you'll see quite a bit of "rebound" and emotional lability (you already are) for a while. He may settle down a bit near the end, or then again, may not. That will tell you what he needs, though. If he is really off mood-wise, maybe he needs a mood stabilizer. I hear that they don't go well with stimulants, so maybe you'll have to try something else for the ADHD.
I'm not a doctor, but I think this is a great idea. Good luck to you both and keep us posted!
Kris

[StrugglingAgain]

No, my ds9 has been on Ritalin LA, Focalin, Risperdal and Clonidine. We've been actively reducing meds till as of today he's only on Clonidine. (It's ME whos's on the Wellbutrin just so I can try to cope!) The Ritalin LA was only working about 2-3 hours and I decided we had to do something since this wasn't working. Now, as a matter of fact, he's not too much worse than he was while on all of it. Yesterday was his last day with the Ritalin LA (one dose), the Focalin and Risperdal are already gone, and now the Clonidine. Yesterday he was super, super behaved. Today isn't as great, but still not any worse than when ON all those meds. I think we might need to try a mood stabilizer....too bad we have to dx our own children. Can you have a mood disorder and it NOT be bipolar? I still don't see the extremes that bipolar indicates, or else I'm not seeing the whole picture. I still have no doubts that he needs meds of some kind and of course, now he's not in school, so that would be another whole different set of problems. I feel like all the decisions are on me and I'm NO doctor!

[AnneM]

I am no expert on mood disorders or bipolar BUT I understand there are various mood disorders - not just bipolar ... but bipolar is the prominent one ... I remember being told once that if a fully fledged tantrum tends to last more than 30 minutes (i.e. sometimes hours) then this is more swinging towards "bipolar" than "adhd" ... An "adhd" induced tantrum (normally produced from frustration) will normally be over within less than 30 minutes and that has certainly been the case with my own add son Sam over the years... HOWEVER, do not take me "literally" on that because as I am not a doctor and not at liberty to even pretend to be one!! ..

One thing however that I have always understood is that where a mood disorder of any sort is considered then the stimulants are a NO NO !! ... They can make things way worse ... I will be interested to see how your son does without the ritalin XR .. and I sending lots of 's and GOOD LUCK !!

Keep us posted S/A !!

[StrugglingAgain]

I knew it was too good to be true. Today has ended up the day from h***! DS is as belligerant as one little nine-year-old boy can get. Let's see I wanted also to tell everyone that he's quit calling me "Butthead". Now it's "FOOL!". I guess I could say it was getting better. I told him if he called me that one more time, that he was in the house for the day. He did. I did.

Why does this all have to be so hard for everyone? I get so tired of fighting day and night, night and day. Even when he's under my nose, he's kicking the dogs or spitting on the floor. There isn't a soul who understands except the members of this board. My DH doesn't even understand. He's at work all the time and when he's not DS doesn't do it much. Why? Fear, I guess. The therapist has asked the same thing. How in the H*** do I know??? Oh yea, maybe I asked for it.

I truly don't know if I can do this for ten more years. If it's bad now, what's it going to be when he's fifteen? What more can one mother do besides being consistent with punishments, go to therapists, and medicate? He can't be left alone to sit on the front porch with a popsicle, honest.

OK, maybe it's just a bad day and tomorrow will be better. (Oh yea.....) I spent the entire day yesterday AND today painting HIS room...inbetween going up and down the ladder to check on him to see who it was NOW that he was terrorizing! Now I can look forward to hormones to add into the soup. He threatened to run away awhile ago and I told him I'd help him pack!

[kurs10b]

I feel for you. My son is very similar. He started off bad today (took small fireworks to school). Then when we went for our walk, he was throwing things, smarting off, etc. He isnt like that for dad, just for me, but thats probably because dad only sees him for a few minutes here and there.

Hope he doesnt mess with your paint job. Within 2 days of painting my kids room it had scratches and chips out of the paint.

[camismom]

strugglingagain said:

I knew it was too good to be true. Today has ended up the day from h***! DS is as belligerant as one little nine-year-old boy can get. Let's see I wanted also to tell everyone that he's quit calling me "Butthead". Now it's "FOOL!". I guess I could say it was getting better. I told him if he called me that one more time, that he was in the house for the day. He did. I did.

Why does this all have to be so hard for everyone? I get so tired of fighting day and night, night and day. Even when he's under my nose, he's kicking the dogs or spitting on the floor. There isn't a soul who understands except the members of this board. My DH doesn't even understand. He's at work all the time and when he's not DS doesn't do it much. Why? Fear, I guess. The therapist has asked the same thing. How in the H*** do I know??? Oh yea, maybe I asked for it.

I truly don't know if I can do this for ten more years. If it's bad now, what's it going to be when he's fifteen? What more can one mother do besides being consistent with punishments, go to therapists, and medicate? He can't be left alone to sit on the front porch with a popsicle, honest.

OK, maybe it's just a bad day and tomorrow will be better. (Oh yea.....) I spent the entire day yesterday AND today painting HIS room...inbetween going up and down the ladder to check on him to see who it was NOW that he was terrorizing! Now I can look forward to hormones to add into the soup. He threatened to run away awhile ago and I told him I'd help him pack!

Struggling, sorry that yesterday was so bad. Maybe it was just a bad day... he is still coming off these meds and his body is still trying to get used to the change. I sometimes think our doctors overmedicate and that is a problem. I think what you are doing is good and admire you for it. Try not to knock yourself because you are doing all you know. Like you said, sad as it is, we have to do the trouble shooting and dx'ing. We are the ones that catches the most hell. I so understand your frustration and question on why it has to be so hard. I have asked it many times.

I can say though, that it does get a LITTLE better with age. I still have times when Cami calls me names and gives me fits, but it is better at 13 now than it was at 9. I mean she actually stays home alone during the sumemr months and does just fine. Most of our troubles now come on school days only. It's the morning fight to get ready and the evening fights about homework that stimulate the "bad" in her now. She can be pretty good now otherwise. So hang in there and don't give up. It is never going to be easy.... I mean when they turn in to teenagers you trade in ADHD for hormones, lol, but life is never easy. We just take it day by day and thats all we can do.

[StrugglingAgain]

Thanks for your words of encouragement, but today I'm about to have a nervous breakdown. He's been at summer school all morning, but beforehand, and since I picked him up less than an hour ago, it's hell around here. I just do NOT understand. He can be civil to total strangers at summer school and get into the car and start shouting at me?? Kicking the back of the seat??? Calling me names??? Demanding things??? NO ONE has to live like this! I can't even say it's the "rebound"....he's been like this since he was 2 years old. I'm so angry I can hardly type......I'll live, but for the rest of the day I've not a word to speak to my child. Yep, then I'll suck it up for another few hours. Surely there's something I did in this life to deserve this. Sorry.......vent.

[camismom]

Vent away!!! I know this is little comfort, but when I have asked the exact same question ..."why does she treat me like crap when she is so nice to eeryone else?"...I have often come up with this answer: because she knows that I am her mom, and I always will be. Therefore she knows that no matter what, no matter how she acts, I will love her. I am her safe haven.. the one person she can let it all out on yet know that despit it, I will love her in the end.

Just a few weeks ago after a particularly bad day at school, Cami came home and gave me hell all night. I asked her why she was being such a butt to me, and her asnwer was simply "I had a bad day." I told her that that didn't give her cause to take it out on me. She told me that she had been "bottling" up her hurt and anger all day and when she got home she had to "let it out." She knew she could safely do so with me. Letting her teacher or her peers have it would get her in trouble.

So, I guess in a round about kind of crazy way, they treat us the worst because they know we will love them despite it.

[AnneM]

S/A

I agree with Christy that we will always see the "worst" of our kids because WE are that "safe haven" ... and they will generally ALWAYS pull our strings much more than anyone else!!

BUT ... BUT .. I have also read over the years that a child with bipolar is much more able to be "good" with strangers etc. and the MAJORITY of the problem will in fact be "at home" ... "just" adhd/add on the other hand apparently presents itself much more 'equally' but not as significantly as bipolar across ALL spectrums of life ... although (just to confuse us further) is "more" significant when with Mum or Dad.... (again that SAFETY zone!)

I am not for ONE MOMENT suggesting your son is bipolar but I do know this (or another mood disorder) is an avenue you ARE looking at ...

[finnmom]

S/A I´am so sorry of your rough time and I also agree with Christy that it´s kind a positive that he can let it out with you, proof´s that you´ve done a great job by making him feel safe with you. Doesn´t comfort you too much I know, but one has to keep looking on those silver lining´s some time´s when it really get´s rough

When you get him med free, will you have the app. with doc settled already or are you just waiting to see what happend´s?

[Amsmom]

s/a, i know youre having such a rough time.
another mood disorder is depression, it doesnt have to be bipolar. when will you see the dr about trying new meds? i recommend strongly that you ask about a mood stabilizer. i cant begin to tell you how much it has helped my ds. pls keep us posted.

[StrugglingAgain]

I'm baaaack! The afternoon was better since I barely spoke to ds. His father has come back from a short Canada trip and stepped into the middle of it. As of today all meds are gone except for 1/2 Clonidine, twice a day. The most recent dose was at noon. We've been to Tae Kwon Do, it's barely past 7:30 and ds is sound asleep on the floor! NOW I know that, in fact, the Ritalin LA has curbed his appetite (which has picked up considerably) AND it's been keeping him from getting much sleep (like forever). We already knew this, but it's confirmed it for sure. He would always GO to sleep pretty good, but he awakens at ungodly hours....getting no more than 7-8 hours of sleep a night and that just is NOT enough for a little 9 yo hyperactive boy.

Amsmom, our most recent child psychiatrist visit was a couple of weeks ago. SINCE that time I decided to wean him off meds, called this doc and he told me how to do it. He then said as soon as we had him completely weaned to call him and we'd discuss what his med-free symptoms were and agree on a med. He probably won't see him again right away, but wait till we see how a new med is working. I, like you, think we might try a mood stabilizer. It seems like the logical med to try, but for the life of me, I don't see bipolar, and I don't see depression (maybe not seeing depression is why I don't see the bipolar). Is your ds on only a mood stabilizer? His dx of ADHD has always puzzled me (perhaps there's nothing that suits it better), because all I have seen is the HYPER part of it. He isn't deficit in attention, if he isn't jumping around and unable to sit! Maybe all this anger towards me is the depression vs sadly sitting in his room, etc.? One of the reasons this is so hard is that he's adopted (as you know) and IF there were any mood disorders OR ADHD we weren't told. ALL I know is that his bio paternal uncle WAS dx ADD.....no H.

This has been a very, very long day. I hope he stays asleep and trust me, I won't budge him even though he's asleep with all his clothes on! Thanks to everyone for putting up with me today. I'm usually tougher and stronger than this. Yes, as my daughter says, I keep alot all bottled up inside.