YEARLY assetments?

[Madison]

Hi all,
I was just wondering if some of you would share how your child is doing on yearly assetments via IQ scores?

Mine is in 2nd grade and was 84 IQ. That is low with the normal being IQ 100 or middle to high 90's.

What tips or tricks are you doing to help them in school if they are testing LOW?

If your doing meds has it worked for LD disorder for longer than 6months?

I've heard about Strattera but does that really help with a LD child or is it more for a ADHD child? Does any meds help with a LD child??

Thanks for the input...take care...madison

[Honeysmom]

Madison, I don't remember exactly what Honey's IQ was, but I know it was like a high-average. I had it done when he was 4 1/2. They also did test math and speech and lanuage seperatly. In math he tested at a 6 1/2 y/o level, while speech he tested at 2 yrs 9 months!

I have heard others on the board say that kids can be very smart and still have LD's. I think it has something to do with how they learn certain information.

Honey was on Adderall until recently and I don't think it helped him learn easier, rather, it made him pay attention to what he was supposed to learn. I don't think that meds will enhance natural intelligance, but they will help ADHD kids able to calm down and concentrate so that they can focus on the material better.

Does that make sense? It does to me, but I wrote it!!

[Madison]

Thanks Honeysmom,
I think your TOTALLY correct! Makes sense to me and that's why I stress 'no meds' because I really don't think meds is going to help her in her school work. Yes...I do believe if your child is smart but on the the hyper side meds HELP but this is something I don't know how to make better. Her behavior is excellent. She seems to try at school but with the reading stuggles what she can't read makes TOTAL sense she would get the material WRONG! I can't seem to get the teacher to work more One on One with her. Making sure she understand and can READ the material given to her. All the teacher can recommend is seek out the help on Special Ed but that's taking LONG! She said "I'm unable to read every question to her." I didn't know HOW to address that comment. I understand but she's going to have to make sure my child understands it. Well, it's a up hill battle....thanks for the re-ply...Madison

[Honeysmom]

Madison does she have ADD or ADHD? I think certain types of meds are better for "day dreamers" than others, but I don't know which ones.

If she has an official DX does she have an IEP or a 504 Plan? If so, it may be time to update it.

Special Ed may be able to help her, but she will need to be tested. I don't know all of the particulars, but I think the school are required to test her if she is behind in a subject and you request it. Maybe it would be helpful to call the school yourself and bypass the teacher. Personally I would go straight for the Guidance office, school psych, or speical ed teacher. Good luck!!

[Madison]

Hi Honeysmom,
Yes...did that last sept. I wanted to address this problem BEFORE she was totally failing and before 3rd grade. I'm getting her through right now but it's with TONS of help on MY end! Teacher just keeps telling me "She would be failing if I wasn't working so hard with her at home." That's probably very TRUE! They did the evaluation...MINI one middle of Sept. She was basically "Average" on their scale but low in reading but it was still in the "Average" range when she took it. They said "Well, we'll go for the BIG battery of tests to pin point her weak/strong parts and that was the last I really heard from them." Right now she's holding on with C's so it's like they aren't in any hurry other than the mini help class twice a week for 30 minutes in reading. It's terrible a parent has to totally STOP helping them with homework, etc before they kick in and start helping them more at school. I'm torn on what to really do. They have been really nice about everything but not much being done in the class room. She just has a terrible time with memorzation!! What we go through for tests is so much WORK! I know it's not normal what we go through and it's depressing to her and me if we wouldn't try our BEST and she would bring home F's from class.

My boy is in 4th grade and a excellent student. There's a boy in Special Ed class that my child is now helping on the bus ride to school with checking that childs work. He said "Mom, most of the time it's simple stuff like capization and some wrong answers. I go through that childs work during our ride to school and tell him like "There's 11 mistakes try and find them." My child re-checks his papers and most of the time that child finds every mistake! My boy said "Mom, I really think he's improving school wise and behavior wise with the extra help." He feels school is too hard on this child and they don't understand him and the teacher that teaches this boy isn't very understanding! He said 'Mom, could you learn if someone is YELLING all the time at you!?" That's how this teacher treats this child and most of the class. It worried me becasue that's the class my girl will be going into dealing with special ed! It sure makes a person THINK! This problem child my boy is helping has RAISED that boys self esteem 100%! He now cares about what his grades are and cares about how he acts in class, etc, etc.

Well, didn't mean to go on and on...Thanks for the in-put...it means ALOT! madison

[Honeysmom]

That is awesome that you son helps the other boy out like that. That is really cool that he takes the time for someone else.

How big is the school that your kids go to? Ours is only 330 kids from 4k-6th grade so it is really small. They get to things pretty quickly.

I can't beleive that a special ed teacher would yell at a student. If she feels she has to raise her voice to get through to the kids then I think she picked the wrong line of work, occoasionally raising your voice is one thing, but yelling on a regualr basis to get through? That's nuts! IMHO, being a special ed teacher takes a special kind of person. They have must have more patience than anyone I know. I can't imagine trying to keep all of the IEP and 504 accomodations straight for all those kids!

I read your other post about what to do now. I would be so annoyed if I was in you shoes. Worst part is, if you give up and let her do bad to show how much she needs the help, she will fail. If you help her they ignor the problem. I am not sure who says it on this board, but it is time to get out your pointy hat....Good Luck...Becky

[Madison]

Thanks Honeysmom,
Yes...it's like I don't hear a WORD from them. She's holding on but it's such ups and downs...ugggg

Yes...I found it very interesting what this boy is telling my boy. He first asked my boy "Have you ever needed special ed?" My boy replied "No." That boy said "Well, it's GOOD that you don't need it becasue that teacher yells ALOT!" It's like this boy that needs special ed picks up on the attitude of the teacher and before the kid has done anything wrong it's like "Sit down! Be quite!" many times this child doesn't deserves it. I KNOW he can be a handful but it's mainly because this teacher is coping a attutude. Kids pick up on stuff like that so easily! My child really felt for him because the way he was talking about his feelings it wasn't like he was trying to get back at the teacher by telling my son his true feelings it was what this child felt inside. My boy then started helping him with the homework on the bus and checking his work and being his friend. He said "Mom, you know that boy has a crush on a girl in class and he asked me "How can I get her to like me?" My boy replied "Well, trying your BEST at getting good grades and not acting up in class really helps alot." This boy has REALLY changed alot attude wise! He now cares about his grades and doing the best he can do. My son said "Mom, I not giving him the answers but making it possible for him to catch his own mistakes and correct them before turning a paper in." It AMAZES me what a classmate can do for another classmate that can make all the difference in the world! Just reaching out to help another in need. This boy is the same boy my child couldn't STAND for two years!! He didn't want to have any part of him becasue he was ALWAYS getting in trouble and my child didn't want that attached to him. I couldn't believe the change in both of them! They even had a FIGHT in the beginning of the year! It was a mini one but my boy had always seen this child as a TROUBLE maker and a failing student! All of the sudden by this boy talking about his true feelings about school and what he was going through my child could understand what this boy was going through and why he was acting so poorly! I'm so glad for the both of them! I'm glad he's found a new friend. It's like they are day and night but find interests they both can relate too.

What other kids see....My child said "Mom, there's a kid in class that has to take medication....Thinking medication." I said "Oh, that's like ADD/ADHD." He said "Yeah, but this boy stares into space all the time and the teacher can't seem to get him to pay attention it's terrible!" He said "How can a child be seeing a phsycogist for X many years and STILL doesn't know his name??? He calls him "Hello, Mr. Physycogist." My boy said "Mom, nobody relates to this child, he displays a I dont' CARE attutude and the other kids keep him at a distance because of it." Then he said "Mom, he will just mark answers and not read what the question is." I said "Well, hon...We go through that with your sissy, she wants to learn many times but material is HARD for her to understand and read so she goes into marking answers instead of putting correct answers down." I said "That's why his parents probably have that boy on meds trying to reach him the best way they know how." I think that shed some light on this child. Hopefully it helps in some way?

Well, didn't mean to go on and on...just wanted to share with you a childs thoughts and feelings to meds in the class and ADHD...take care...madison

[eaccae]

Madison

I take IQ tests with a grain of salt in many ways. Especially with add/adhd kids - because often times I think due to some of the focusing problems it is hard to get an accurate assessment. I am not sure that the tests actually reflect the true IQ - if a child has trouble focusing and isn't on meds, etc. - especially since a lot of the tests are timed - it plays a part in the test results. What they need to do (and hopefully they are doing this) is look at the subtests in which she didn't do as well - and give her some further, more specialized tests in those areas to see if they can detect a LD. Also - I think the schools use them sometimes as an excuse. In our case - DS on both IQ tests (one at 5 and one now at 8) have him in the superior range for his overall IQ and the majority of his subtests. . Because of that - he "doesn't qualify" for an IEP or a 504 - yet he is still struggling. He has all the normal adhd problems and yet they refuse to give him any help even with the neuropsychologists reports, etc. But don't get me started on that . . .

One thing that I did notice in a different post (I can't find it now) is that your daughter's IQ went down a little from the the first assessment. I know that the findings aren't "hard" scores, etc. but I just wanted to let you know that there is something called the "matthew effect" - when an IQ continues to decline - and that usually has NOTHING to do with your child's intelligence but with the lack of proper education for your child. And the school can be held responsible for this. (Hopefully you won't need this at all but I will just give it to you so you can keep it in the back of your mind). www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/ltrs/ltr_Pat_falling_IQscores.html

We are using medication for DS for his focusing (without it he can't complete a worksheet but with it he can get almost everything completed, etc.) Unlike this poor boy in your son's class -you would never know DS was on medication! As for LDs and medication - really the only thing that will help LDs is special ed. Luckily in the majority of schools special ed is NOT like it used to be when we were young. Almost everyone I know has a child in special ed for something. And I am trying desparately to get special ed for DS in handwriting for his dysgraphia. Hopefully the school can pinpoint an area that they can help!

And wow - your son sound like a great boy! We need more empathetic, understanding and helpful people in this world just like him!

[Madison]

Thanks eaccae,
That means so very much to have a other inputs!! yes..her scores did go down. I don't know how to keep her up with the class and I'm doing a POOR job of it!

Today she told me "Mom, I threw a bad paper away in the trash at school!" This was a booklet test. A important one not just a little simple worksheet. I'M UPSET! She was to have a friend from class spend the night and she didn't want to bring it home becasue she was afraid I would say "No because of the bad paper." It sure would have gone through my mind but I don't think I would have cancelled the sleepover? I feel SICK over the whole situation! I've had trouble before with her not bring home papers and then they wonder why I don't know why she's got a D in two subjects. I WISH I knew how to handle bad grades!!! I NEVER follow through on punishment for whatever has gone on in class or F's! I always GIVE IN and feel so darn bad if I got to cancel something or not get what she's wanting and what weve planned on. It tears me apart! I hated to call that girls parent and cancel like that. Oh...somebody tell me I did the right thing??? I told her today "Hon, I'm NOT ever going to get upset over bad grades anymore. You'll never hear a word from me again over it. Those are YOUR grades and You'll be the one doing 2nd grade over or summer school. I see it's NOT helping with her bring home bad papers." I FEEL TERRIBLE right now! We had planned to make Valentine tee shirts during the sleepover too. Lots was planned. Cheeto party too.... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Please tell me how you deal with bad grades? Maybe I could learn from some of you other parents

take care...madison

[Madison]

eaccae,
EXCELLENT READING...thanks for sending me that website! take care...madison

[eaccae]

Madison,

I know exactly what you are going through - I have been through it so many times myself. I started worrying that I was putting DS under too much pressure and that I might actually be hindering his self confidence myself. So I stopped freaking out over his grades. When he comes home with - let's say a failed math test - I will say that it is okay and ask him what happened, etc. (Although it was pretty obvious) - I discovered that he was getting all the questions that he answered correct but he wasn't finishing the test (it's timed). He would tell me he tried his best but he didn't have enough time. During one of his battery of tests by the school - one of the special ed teachers said that he was grade level on math but that he only worked in one speed therefore he couldn't finish his work in the amount of time given. - Of course knowing this you would think that the school would allow him to take untimed math tests - or give a little extra time - but of course not!!! Anyway - my point was that I discovered that he was doing his best and if he failed - I was only going to judge him on the answers he completed. In my mind it is the school who is failing my son and not my son who is failing the school! (And of course I am keeping all the tests, etc. so that if an issue comes up at the end of or during the year I can walk in prepared).

Sorry - I got off track a little bit - I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't get too worked up over the grades anymore - just find out what happened or how she was feeling and see if you notice a pattern or if she needs extra help on something that you might be able to work on at home, etc. I have made up my mind to judge DS's work against his own work. If I don't think he is living up to his potential or giving his all - I will try to find a way to motivate him - and if it is something that I know he is struggling with - I am proud of his improvements and let him know that I know it is hard for him but that he is doing a good job, etc.

I do think you did the correct thing with the sleepover because she didn't bring the paper home. She has to learn that she can't hide things from you.

I wish you the best of luck! It is not easy!

[Madison]

Hi eaccae,
Thanks for the good advice. She too has had grades poor because of TIMED tests and I've NEVER gotten on to her over that. Yes...as long as they are correct I don't worry about how fast she does them. Your doing great on that end!

After TWO DAYS of her crying and begging and crying and begging and having a FIT over her friend NOT coming over I finally gave into her. I don't feel it's really the right decision in some ways and it's right in other ways. You would THINK after all evening last night she would give up on it??....NO WAY...sleepover or no sleepover her grades are a struggle and I don't see them improving becasue she is doing something she likes over the weekend. I DON'T want to plan anymore sleepovers for awhile after this weekend. I've had time to think things over and it's like were on a ROLL with either her going over her friends house or her friend coming here. I can't seem to get it to STOP! ...uugggggg Well, she's now a HAPPY CAMPER over my ruling. Haven't had any problems with her all day. Gosh...I've never seen a kid cry and carry on for TWO DAYS!! I didn't get upset the whole time just saying "No, you shouldn't have thrown that paper away and it's no for the sleepover." I just couldn't take that anymore. She was going to have her way or else! I'm trying to LEARN from this situation. I don't want to disappoint her friend that was planning on coming over. That's not right either. Well, thanks for listening...I'm SURE going to take your advice!! I too don't want to "Hinder her self confidence." Take care...madison

[mctavish23]

Hi,

Just thought I'd give you some IQ testing info as an FYI.
There are several full scale IQ tests, The oldest is the Stanford-Binet V. Its normed for kids under 6 and is better suited for testing for Giftedness because it has a higher ceiling. The V is the 5th and newest version.

The most widely used IQ test is the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC). The WISC IV just came out and is different from the WISC-III, which you may have seen given by schools(and clinical/child or clinical psychologists). There are no longer Verbal IQ's ,or a Performance(non verbal) IQ. Those have been replaced by 4 Domains that are similiar to the Binet.
What is being measured here is also closely aligned( but different) to the Binet.This is good because you can make better comparison's between the two.

What they measure is cyrstalized and fluid thinking.Those refer to school related knowledge and the abilty to solve new problems. One of the very best brief IQ screening tests the Kaufman Brief Intelligence Test(K-BIT), also measures those as well.

The Average Range of Intelligence is 90-109, with 100 being dead average with a percentile ranking of 50.This applies for all ages.Also, 50% of the population have scores in that range.
Depending on where you look, the Borderline Range is defined as 71-84 by the DSM-IV(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Assos. This is where the diagnoses come from).
The Weschler Manual defines that same Range as 70-79, with 80- 89 being Low Average.
Here's the most important thing to remember, IQ tests are good for about a year AND there are a range of scores surrounding each IQ sccore that, depending on the age and degree of confidence(either 90 or 95%; meaning the same range of scores would be obtained that many times out of a hundred tests
under same conditions).
What that means is that your kids scores may vary across different administrations of the same test. However, they will rarely bounce outside them.So dont get hung up on the number so much as the Range is more important.
Good luck.Hope that helps some. I've got more info on the WISC-IV if ya'll would like that.Take care.

mctavish23(Robert)

[Madison]

Robert,
Thank you for the information I'm reading it very closely! Yes...Your correct on your information. I was able to talk to the princible at a "fun nite/mini meeting" and she said "Evaluations go down very LOW! Before they see the need for special ed services." I knew what she was talking about. She said too "They will be testing her in areas BROKEN down like you were talking about and try and key in what she's learning and what she's not." I've found they've done NOTHING as far as anymore testing but she's on the list. This princible helps with a mini reading class done like 2 times a week so she's see a little of what my child is doing as far as reading." She said "What I see MOST is my child doesn't REMEMBER material that they went over the day before more than anything." I KNOW this....Memorzation is a pure stuggle! She said "We will go over material and the next day it's like she's never seen it before in her LIFE!" I have no idea how to correct this problem.

She came home crying today because teacher wrote in RED ink "She just FILLED IN blanks and DIDN'T read the material and she's had SERVERAL talks with her about this problem and she turned a card for this action." She said in TEARS "Mom, I'm NOT just filling in blanks....I can't read/spell those words!" It's like s_ _sage. She's a HORRIBLE speller!!!!! She PHONIC spells EVERYTHING. Milk....via MELCK! Its' so bad that I'm surprised the teacher can read some of her answers. I don't know what to say to the teacher. She's had MANY of talks with me and I told her "We work on material all the time from school and I can't make her any smarter!' I too feel she just FILLS in blanks alot of times. She doesn't slow down and check her work. Just wants to get it done. I don't know???

help...I need words of wisdom right now!

take care...madison