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Post by dansmommy on Jan 31, 2004 21:36:54 GMT -5
DS 8 is in third grade. He's been talking out in class a lot since they came back from Christmas break. He has a student teacher and I really don't think what they're doing is helping him at all -- I guess pointing it out every time he talks. I guess they are going to start having him call me on the third offense in a day but they hadn't done that before because he'd get so upset. I told him the other day I'd give him a reward after a week if he could do his best not to talk out, but the teacher doesn't think he's doing his best. He says he has an idea and if the teacher doesn't call on him he just says it out loud. I told him to write it down, and the teacher agreed to talk to him after the discussion, but I don't think that idea really went anywhere. Any more ideas please? Thanks, Christie
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Post by LitlBaa on Feb 1, 2004 1:59:51 GMT -5
Does he want to share his ideas on the current topic or is he changing channels in the discussion? Is he in a spot where he isn't seen well or is he not being called on? Does he feel like he's part of the class? I'm a substitute teacher, and I go into a class with no advance knowledge of who's there. What I've noticed is the ones who don't really feel they're part of things tend to have more to say when it's not their turn to say it.
Maybe talking with both the teacher and student teacher about his visibility and calling on him when his hand is raised (with a gentle reminder if it's not...remember, I can't call on you unless your hand's up!) and making a deal with him on the number of ideas he can share out loud in a day will help. If he knows that he'll be heard at least once during each class discussion when his hand's up, he might be more likely to control the talking out.
Just a couple of suggestions...hope it helps!
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Post by dansmommy on Feb 1, 2004 20:40:40 GMT -5
Good suggestions, LitlBaa. I think they do call on him, but it could be that they're not doing so as much. I'm about ready to find out about having someone do a behavioral assessment or get an expert on Tourette Syndrome in there to observe. I don't really even know how to do that, and I don't think there even are any in our area. Christie
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Post by mskris on Feb 3, 2004 13:23:15 GMT -5
Dansmommy:
Just a question: do you have other reasons to suspect Tourette's syndrome? Speaking out of turn, if it's on topic, is not a symptom of TS. Both my dh and ds have mild TS, so I know whereof I speak. However, if your ds has been diagnosed with TS, and he is speaking off topic when he speaks in class (ie, outbursts of speech unrelated to discussion), it could be a manifestation of the TS. Just wondered why you'd think it was TS.
As for the teacher - Li'lbaa had great ideas. Is there any way the teacher can cue him that she's heard him, but not directly address him (ie, a touch on the shoulder or head, while she's calling on someone else)? I'm not sure he should be punished for this, but rather, his behavior needs to be modified. It sounds like he's an eager and engaged student - you don't want to squelch that!
Why is it that these teachers seem so clueless on how to deal with this type of behavior? My ds (also 8, BTW), is also having some issues at school. The teacher called to say he was being "silly." I'm not sure what that means, but he's never been a discipline problem anywhere (except home, LOL!) - all his teachers, Sunday school included, have said he's sweet and respectful. DH is meeting with the teacher tomorrow a.m. to find out more, but I hesitate to believe ds is a "problem" student in class...Sometimes I think our adhd kids get more scrutiny than they might otherwise, KWIM? Worst, the teacher suggested a medication change! WHY do school personnel think meds are a cure for all symptoms of ADHD or TS?? I assured her I wasn't going to take that route - we're overall very satisfied with Strattera and I'm not about to go messing around with medication adjustments for "silly" behavior - the kid's an 8-y-o boy, for Heaven's sake!!!
Sorry - got on my soapbox there for a moment.
Kris
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Post by Linda on Feb 3, 2004 13:42:21 GMT -5
kris..you may be on to something here..there was a boy last year that used to do the same thing...he was in 5th grade and not yet diagnosed,and I was at my wits end with him because of the inappropriate talking...and I asked why are you talking when you are not supposed to be talking...and he looked straight at me and said...I CAN'T HELP IT! He WAS LATER DIAGOSED WITH TS.
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Post by dansmommy on Feb 3, 2004 15:18:20 GMT -5
He does have TS. I know his content being "on-track" for the discussion so to speak, it's not just tics (he was doing echolalia stuff last year but the teacher handled it beautifully). But I think there's more than just wanting to be heard. I had him try his best not to talk out just to see if he got anxious or anything, but he can't even really do it -- or the teacher thinks he's not really trying.
But what do you think about this? He said "beans, beans, they're good for your heart ..." in class a few days ago. (Not a tic -- he hasn't done it before or since. I haven't heard that it was on topic for the discussion either). The teacher was not impressed and feels even more like he's not trying. There is some OCD component to this maybe, but I don't really know enough about it to figure it all out. Christie
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Post by mskris on Feb 4, 2004 19:10:20 GMT -5
Dear Christie:
I forgot that your son is already diagnosed with TS...
"Beans, beans" is currently popular in my ds' 3rd grade; he was also singing it (at home) a couple of weekends ago and it seems pretty age-appropriate to me.
Well, along the same line, dh had a talk with T's teacher today. She said that T is making faces, touching the wall (?), getting out of his seat, etc. and it makes the kids laugh, meaning she has to take time to settle the class down. All this behavior is new since X-mas break. Prior to this, he's NEVER been a discipline/disruption problem in class. She thinks he's doing it for the other kids' attention and laughter, but I'm not convinced. All the behaviors she described (albeit I heard secondhand), sound very typically ADHD/TS to me.
I spoke with T and he said he's not doing anything deliberately. He likes this teacher, so I told him that he's not in trouble, but he's making her job harder, and could he try to keep that in mind and try not to do the things she described. He was very serious and promised to try.
In the meantime, she wants to keep a daily record of his behavior and put him on a "point" system...I have no problem with the record (in fact, I'd like to see if there's any timing/pattern involved), but if he isn't doing these things deliberately for attention, I'm not sure the point system will work. Also, if he doesn't earn the correct no. of points, we're supposed to address it at home. To me, it has to be more timely and immediate to have any effect. Do you agree?
The Plan B is to send him to the resource room if it happens 3 times in one day. I'm not too thrilled about that, either.
Anyone have ideas that are better for adhd kids than these, that they've had success with? I think he really means well, and isn't trying to be disruptive. I've told him that we can ensure he's permitted to stand up to do his work or get out of his seat if he needs to, but that he'd be the only one doing that (he had some bullying last year for being "different", so we don't want to start that again)...
I asked him if he was trying to get the kids to laugh with him so they wouldn't laugh at him (KWIM?), but he assured me he has friends and nobody is teasing him. I asked him if he was doing it to earn friends/be popular, but he very seriously denied that.
I'm not sure who to believe or how to proceed. While I don't want him disrupting the class, at the same time, I don't want him to feel punished for behavior he really has little control over and that is so typical of adhd/ts.
Help!!
Kris
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Post by mskris on Feb 4, 2004 19:22:21 GMT -5
Can you believe after all that writing I forgot to address something??  As for not trying.... The teacher and resource teacher told my dh that they know T is capable of better and he's not trying hard enough. I know T is very bright and can probably do better academically, but (I hate to admit this) despite my disappointment in his academic performance, I've decided I have to balance things in T's case... What I mean is, yes, he could be getting As and Bs instead of Cs, but he is happy, healthy, and seems to be thriving at school. He likes school, has friends this year, is interested in certain topics/subjects, etc. So, if he's not "achieving his potential" in third grade, but is happy and getting along, I need to accept that. T tends to vacillate between perfectionism and sloppiness...I want him to try, but I don't want to pressure him, KWIM? Some of the work is crazy IMHO, for 3rd grade. The teacher sent home a failed test to be signed - it was a quiz in LIBRARY, one of 3 given on a single day right before the holiday break. He got 100% on the science test given that day - which, incidentally, was 3 pp long!! So I felt that he gave his all on that and I didn't even address the other 2 tests on which he did poorly - I think he did his best and that's all I can ask. I guess that makes me a poor parent in a teacher's eyes, but I honestly don't place much importance on a library test. I have to pick and choose and be realistic in what I expect from him. So, maybe Danny is having some of these types of issues - they say he's not trying, but maybe he just puts all his effort in one area and doesn't have anything left for the others?? I really feel for these kids! The schools are pushing these kids to achieve academically, regardless of their emotional health!! Okay, stepping down, now... Kris |
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Post by dansmommy on Feb 4, 2004 19:49:50 GMT -5
Yikes ... touching the wall sounds like TS/OCD doesn't it? And the others could well be tics too. Is the teacher knowledgeable about TS? I ask myself these same questions. DS called me from school today because he was freaking out -- the class voted to skip recess and do a 5 paragraph essay -- does this make sense? so ds had trouble getting started. That's actually part of the school disciplinary plan to call home, and I tried to encourage him. I'd really resist punishing my kid at home for things he did at school. He's already embarrassed about his behavior. When ds was in kindergarten he had a behavior plan, but we were only supposed to comment on the positive marks.
As far as school being ridiculously over academic, I still can't get over the 5 paragraph essay. Are they really going to graduate with better writing because they learned this -- which I learned in high school -- before their brains were really ready for it? We're going to see ds's therapist tomorrow so I hope she has some ideas. Christie
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Post by mskris on Feb 5, 2004 10:21:35 GMT -5
Christie:
It's so nice to know I'm not alone in some of my thoughts/feelings about this.
I, myself, have been very emotional lately (I'm 27 wks pg and suffer from depression), which is why I asked dh to confer with the teacher (I'd have lost it and been ineffective).
I can't help but think that T is having trouble attending, but maybe his actions RESULT in the kids laughing, and he's not doing it to get that result (does that make sense?). The teacher mentioned on the phone to me that he puts his head down on the desk. If he feels a need to do that (for whatever reason), and the other kids laugh, is that his fault??
I vacillate between wanting to defend/protect T, while at the same time being sensitive to the teacher's need to keep the class in order and accomplish her teaching objectives...
She sent home a formal plan yesterday, which will be implemented starting Monday. I will review it tonight/over the weekend and maybe I'll call another conference, delaying implementation. I'd like to see if there's a pattern to the behavior (eg, does it happen close to lunchtime, when he may be hungry, or late in the day when he's tired)...
T sincerely denied doing any of the behaviors described deliberately and I have to believe him at this point. I will continue to try to determine his level of control over these...
Maybe it would be as simple as moving his seat to the back of the class so he's not so visible to the other students? I don't know...
I do know that the coursework is more difficult than earlier in the year, so maybe T is feeling overwhelmed and that is causing more distraction/inattention/fidgeting...he did mention he thinks some of it is too hard. <sigh> there has to be a happy medium here...I hate to punish him or put more pressure on him when he's already feeling overwhelmed. I wish there was a simpler answer for all of us.
Kris
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