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Post by mskris on Dec 8, 2003 12:27:10 GMT -5
 Just who is it that designs the school curriculum, anyway?? My ds is in 3rd grade, and I can't believe the amount and complexity of the material they expect these 8-y-olds to learn! I am a professional with quite a bit of education, but what they're asking of these kids is ridiculous. They've introduced algebra, and ALL the kids are having trouble with it. The teacher even gave the test a second time because so many kids did poorly. DS, whose favorite subject is math, only got a 70% (which, in this school, is a D). There are LOTS (mostly) word problems on the test. He did the functions correctly, but he performed the wrong function! Poor kid is starting to feel bad about it, too. Then there's science. In this particular situation, the science class is taught by a different teacher. DS loves science and we work with him closely to study the material. He got a 77% on the test (barely a C), because he had trouble with the essay question (HELLO - essay questions for 3rd graders??) and because he didn't use full sentences (EXCUSE ME - THIS IS SCIENCE, NOT LANGUAGE ARTS). We currently have a call into the teacher to ensure she's accomodating him according to his 504. It's sad to see him get discouraged, especially in subjects he enjoyed previously. The science test was 3 pages long! All about animals, plants, habitats, etc. He knew the info and was enthusiastic at home, then gets a C on the test....BTW, earlier this year he had an 87% in math and 100% in science. Again, these are third graders - I didn't have this amount/type of material until 5th or 6th grade! WHat are they really trying to achieve here??? Anyone know?? I dont' blame the teachers, really, because they don't make up the curriculum, but I find that it's the parents who really have to teach this stuff, because they just can't cover it all in class, but then it appears on the test.... Sorry so long and thanks for letting me vent. Kris
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Post by adhdtimes4 on Dec 8, 2003 12:34:39 GMT -5
My fifth grader came home talking about " Dramatic Irony". Anybody besides him know what that is?
When I was in fifth grade we were still struggling with similes and metaphors.
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Post by mskris on Dec 9, 2003 13:04:32 GMT -5
LOL - Yes, as an English major, I do know what dramatic irony is, but I don't recall learning it until 7th grade English...
Seems like most schools have pushed the curriculum ahead by about 2 yrs - my 3rd grader is learning things more appropriate, IMHO, to 5th grade, and your 5th grader is at about what was previously 7th grade level work. Hmmmmm.
Again, I don't see the advantage of stuffing these young kids full of info they reallly don't know how to apply at this age. Learning more at an earlier age is not of much benefit, IMHO, in the long run (and studies show that). So it is just causing much frustration among parents, students, and probably, in teachers, too.
My ds, who used to sit right down to do math homework (it was fun), now is procrastinating and says he doesn't want to do it. How to turn kids off from learning, huh??? He's getting very discouraged about school in general, and I hate to see that.
KRis
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Post by tridlette on Dec 9, 2003 14:53:49 GMT -5
Kris, trust me, they may be rushing through to teach the kids great things, but watch out! I have 2 of them that still haven't been taught penmanship! I have a sixth grader that can't write his own name legibly, and my 4th grader has everything marked wrong simply because the teacher can't read it. Then if you take dictation for their compositions, (and I expect T. can use words that are far above 3rd grade written work), they get accused of not doing their own work. Michael got detention for today (8th grader) because he didn't take notes on reading a topographic map... this boy who teaches orienteering for Boy Scouts and works with the local Search and Rescue team (and has been since he was 7). He tried to ask a question in the Geography class about a certain specific part of map making, and the teacher scolded him for wandering off the topic! GRRRR! I am equally frustrated, but I don't know what the answer is. I think part of the problem is that the Penn. Dept. of Ed. sets such rediculous standards, but then I realize there are other states that are far worse, or even don't really have any standards. Are there any good charter schools in your area that you could possibly get him into? P.S. ~ do I have to start planning a shower yet?  Laurie |
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Post by camismom on Dec 9, 2003 16:04:21 GMT -5
mskris,
I so whole-heartedly agree with you on this. I have said for years that they are trying to push our kids up two years further than we were at there are. My dd is in Pre-Algebra this year (6th grade) and I didn't have that until 8th grade. She consistently comes home with things that both me and my husband don't remember having until much later!
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Post by tridlette on Dec 10, 2003 0:58:03 GMT -5
adhdtimes4... funny about the IRONY (no pun intended ) My 8th grader started on the subject in English class today! I almost ran off the road laughing while I was driving to his concert tonight! I have to ask, is dramatic irony anything like O. Henry? |
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Post by dansmommy on Dec 11, 2003 15:01:13 GMT -5
DS is in third grade too, and I think I commented before I thought some of the goals your ds's school has for the students are a little high. Some things in ds's school seem low (one of his spelling words this week was "fish" -- I think because they use the 1000 most common words) but I think their writing goals are high. They're supposed to write a 5 paragraph essay, which I learned to do in Junior Honors English in high school. Also, he was doing a graph with two axes, which again, I don't remember doing until I was a junior in high school in second year algebra. If none of the kids in your ds's school are getting it, there must be a problem either with the teaching or the curriculum. Good luck getting it straightened out. Christie
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Post by mskris on Dec 11, 2003 15:26:02 GMT -5
Laurie, et al:
I've looked into alternative schools, but there don't seem to be any appropriate ones in Bucks Co. I do have a question: What is an intermediate unit? Is that strictly special ed?
Standards are driving me crazy - that's all the school teaches to, never mind creativity or "thinking outside the box" as your son's questions and the teacher's response demonstrates.
My ds is very intuitive and yes, his vocabulary far outdistances his writing ability...it seems like all they want is regurgitation and if he doesn't get the terms/vocab exactly right, even though the concept is correct, he's penalized. His latest science test was an example of that...he confused two terms, but he really did understand the thought/concept - got points taken off on the test, though. He's frustrated and getting discouraged, which is sad to see.
We did get a response from his teacher, who agreed that he may need some more support. She suggested he leave the class with some other kids for a special "study group" in science and social studies. He wasn't thrilled with the idea...I think he thinks those kids are labeled in some way (that's how it sounded when he protested). We may try it anyway to see if it helps, but if not, I guess it's just up to us parents to do the teaching! Yea, I have lots of free time to do that, don't you all?! Not to mention those of us with more than one child in school. Sierra does a great job, and I think Laurie (Tridlette) does, too. Maybe I'm just lacking in that area, but there don't seem to be enough hours in a day...
As for the shower, Laurie - I'm 20 weeks now; just got the good news that amnio results are normal - don't know the sex though!
Kris
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Post by on_edge on Dec 11, 2003 17:05:57 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
Daughter is in kindergarten. She is expected to learn how to read before going on to first. She has only been in school for four months and she is expected to be able to read words like yellow, today, little, etc. Also, to count and write to 100 with addition and subtraction. And we are struggling to just get her to learn how to tie her shoes.
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Post by adhdtimes4 on Dec 11, 2003 17:23:04 GMT -5
Tridlette - Dramatic irony, at least as explained by my 5th grader, is when the reader/viewer of a book/play knows something that the characters don't, which can be horrifying, suspenseful or amusing. Example: the shower scene in "Psycho".
There's also an example in "Summer of the Swans", which my fifth grader was reading at the time. I must say that for such an advanced concept, the teacher was able to communicate it well enough for my son to teach it to his mother!
If he's taught me incorrectly, please correct me.
K
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Post by tridlette on Dec 12, 2003 0:03:42 GMT -5
Yeah for Kris!
I am so excited for you. And I will tell you from personal experience, it is much better not to know the gender until you're looking at the little face! Done it both ways, and I am all for the old fashioned way of finding out!
An IU, intermediate unit, is Pennsyvania's answer to keeping out of education decisions! The district over-sees the schools. The IU over-sees the district. It is usually at the County level. It handles most of the decisions that effect local education, leaving the Penna. Dept. of Education to tackle more global issues. The often provide Early Childhood services, plus specialized services to individual schools that otherwise couldn't afford to provide them. It is the "cost effective" solution for each county to share resources. Obviously, there are IU's that are wonderful, and some that are less so! Of course, this is simply my understanding of how it works. I can ask a friend who is an OT for the Chester County IU.
Laurie
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Post by mskris on Dec 12, 2003 11:08:37 GMT -5
Laurie:
Thanks for the explanation. I visited the Bucks co. IU website but couldn't determine if it offered any services outside of the individual schools or not. I was unsuccessful in finding anything about alternative or charter schools in PA. The IU is located in Doylestown, which is quite a ways from us.
I need to address the issue of the study groups further with both the teacher and with T. BTW, he had to write two essay questions for homework last night, on top of math and spelling! He did so pretty well, though. I had him tell me orally what he wanted to say, then he wrote it and I only had him correct punctuation and spelling.
I still feel they're pushing these kids too far too soon. T is bright, not special ed, but he is daunted by essay questions and a 3-page test! I talked to my mom about this and interestingly, though all her kids were good students, her opinion is that 8-y-olds don't have the attention span to complete a 3-page test in the required amount of time!
I wish I knew what the answer was - I guess maybe I have to write the school district about this issue of curriculum, but I'm sure my one little voice won't accomplish anything...would it be better to address the IU with my concerns??
Kris
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Madison
Member
Tomorrow is another day............
Posts: 90
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Post by Madison on Dec 12, 2003 15:04:30 GMT -5
Hi,
This is the very reason I had a evaluation done. My child is in 2nd grade and she's doing ok on school work but I KNEW the material in 3rd grade is going to be OVER her head in alot of ways. They require CORRECT spelling on everything and she struggles in spelling and reading. It takes her from Aug-Dec to start to grasp what is going on in class now in 2nd grade. My boy which in 4th grade and was a EXCELLENT student almost straight A's when he went to 3rd grade those all A's and B's students went to B's, C's and some D's and he NEVER had brought home a D or F until 3rd grade. He's a good student so he was able to get his act together and keep his grades up but I wondered like crazy about the students that weren't like him via my daughter. How do they keep up? ? I didn't want her entering 3rd grade and FAILING. It's good I contacted the school now instead of waiting until 3rd grade because I can have something in place to help her with reading and spelling at school. These IEP or evaluation TAKE FOREVER!! I've been in the process since middle Sept and they just had my first Pre-Evaluation process. Now they are going to do the in depth evaluation which will take another 60-90 school days. Well, going to close...take care...Madison
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Post by dansmommy on Dec 14, 2003 1:54:04 GMT -5
I think it's dangerous to put too much emphasis on spelling and other conventions in writing at this tender age because I think it will start to limit what they say. This can do long-term damage to a child's writing ability as they start to edit before they start to write. He should be turning in rough drafts at the very least which the teacher then asks for a reasonable number of corrections -- even at that I don't think it should be perfect because it's too overwhelming to these young kids. christie
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Post by rosyred45 on Dec 17, 2003 12:16:04 GMT -5
Boy, I agree with just about everything everyone has said along the lines of asking too much.
I do have to say that Madison caught my attention to detail foremost. My daughter's teacher, who is about the best I could ask for. This is quoted from her notes that she sends home on Mondays along with the homework schedule and any other notes. It typically explains what has been going on in class , but since progress reports were sent home yesterday, she so nicely, in my eyes, simplified some of my questions on progress.
"The 2nd marking period is when we begin to see the true indications of a child's progress in a new grade. We've passed through the review phase and into the new grade level material, and emotional adjustments have been made in most cases."
I know that not every one might agree with that, but if there has been worry about the beginning of the year, please know that you are not alone. I feel blessed to have her for my daughter's teacher.
Kaiti
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