just unloading

[Honeysmom]

I am sorry to do this again, but I am at a loss again and I guess I just need support.

I had a fight with Jerry again yesterday. I asked a question, and he wouldn't give me an anwser. It was a simple question, but decided tht he was not in the mood to talk aparently and started giving me the silent treatment. Then one thing lead to another and now he refuses to talk to me at all. I admit, that I was probably wrong in the first place, but I apologized and it makes no difference. Everytime I talk, he leaves the house.

I don't have any idea what I am supposed to do. He made it pretty clear that he thinks that I am the problem. He told me that all I do is complain, and I really don't think that is true. He said that first I complained that he didn't make enough $, then when he made enough $, I complained that he wasn't home enough, then I complained that he doesn't do enough around the house! Not true, at all. In fact, the first two are things his mom always/still does say. The part about helping around the house is true that he doesn't help, but I don't complain about it, there is not point.

I just don't know what to do. Both of us said really hurtful things to each other, but I think I am the only one who doesn't mean it. He really thinks I am a big crab who just likes to pick on him. He told me that I he think I want him to be miserable. I don't see myself as this person and don't know how to fix this. I really think he is going to leave me he is so mad. Maybe that would be best, b/c I think we bring out the worst in each other and are making each other miserable.

I have only been married for 5 1/2 years and I don't want this to happen. I love him, and so do the kids. I need him to help me take care of them and take care of Honey and I honestly don't think I can alone. I don't know what to do.

Becky

[rosyred45]

(((((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))

Becky, I'm sorry to see you two fighting. Mike and I don't really fight, but then when we do WATCH OUT!!! But that only happens once a year when all of the stress that we've been building up about EVERYTHING explodes.

Is there any way that you two could spend a few hours alone and just talk? I know sounds dumb. Not even starting with the problems. Just talk. No fighting, no negativity, anything, everything. What the kids did that was funny, what stupid things you've done or said in the day.

I did something really stupid yesterday, and if someone saw it, I know they would've been dying laughing, but I told Mike " Guess what I did" I would tell you, but I forget how everything went abouts, so If I rememeber, I'll let you know.

Any how. Just listen to what he is saying and ask why? Why do you think I like you miserable? Why do you think I complain too much? Is it all of the stupid little things or is it something else, something bigger that you don't want to say?

If he can justify an answer, then swallow the pride and fix what is wrong. I don't like swallowing my pride, but I do it and so does Mike. Step outside of your self and look at what he is looking at. I personally can't stand doing that either, BUT it has brought my attention to a few things that were bugging the crap outta him. I didn't even realize I was annoying him, but I was.

It was the behavior that was bugging, just like the kids. Look from his eyes, stand in his shoes, try to understand what point of view he is coming from. You might not agree with that point of view, but as long as you can HONESTLY talk and try to get him to see things from your point of view, there shouldn't be too much to fret about.

Just think of when honey is in a full blown tantrum, does he listen? NO, does he hear you? NO. Just go with it from there. Let Jerry know that you think you both need to sit and talk things out instead of arguing all the time. You want to listen and see his point of view, but if he doesn't open up honestly with everything that is on his mind, your never going to be able to understand why you are always fighting. AND that goes for you too. Be Honest. Tell him how you feel about certain things. Your not trying to hurt feelings, but this is how you feel.

Do you remember me saying I was on a respect kick? Well, you do have to respect each other enough to be able to tell the truth AND respect the other by listening.

I hope you don't think that sounds mean. I just think that petty things are different than BIG things. And, w/out sounding too ignorant, how is Jerry doing with the drinking, could this have anything to do with it? Withdrawl and all that are a b****, Hang in there.....

Kaiti

[Honeysmom]

Kaiti,

He is doing fine with the drinking. For the last two weeks he has done real well and I can't complain.

The problem is that he won't talk, at all, ever. I am the first to admit that I probably do things that drive him nuts, but I can't fix them if I don't know what they are. And quite honestly, men usually complain that we want them to read our minds, well, in this case it is the exact opposite. I am a talker and he is not at all.

And on my side of this, I am hurt b/c when he gets mad, he is the most important thing. (and the kids) But today I was supposed to run some errands, pick up some meds, and I am out of cigaretts (may sound minor, but if you smoke you know what I mean). He took my car to work b/c he ran his out of gas in the driveway. He was going to come home at 12:00 for lunch to bring me the car, but he never came or called.

That is what I hate, childish fighting. Now I won't have my meds, Honey can't go to his friends, and it just adds fuel to the fire. I don't know, I'm babbling and I am frusterated.

thanks for the advice...becky

[sierra]

Oh dear is it any wonder you're having trouble sleeping?

I think Kaiti has some good ideas. I'm not sure what else to suggest but there have been a lot of changes in your lives lately. Honey's evaluation and your DH trying to stop drinking and your surgery and all the stress of your MIL and your new job and I don't know what else. You both have to be just frazzled half to death.

It's awful hard with little kids but you two could surely use some time away from all the things in life that stress you out. Time just for the two of you. What if you two could just get two hours away from everything? Where would you go? What would you want to talk about?

There's a couple of things I do that really grate on my DH. There's a couple things he does that really grate on me. We both know we do these things and we try to minimize it around each other but it's really impossible for either of us to change because it's a big part of our personalities. How we operate and think. But just knowing that its not on purpose and its hard to change helps both of us live with the things we can't change about each other and ourselves.

Sometimes when our tempers have been getting short we try a couple different things.

Sometimes I try to guess out loud the thing that's annoying DH the most about me. And he does the same tries to guess what's got me spitting nails. We're both usually so far off the mark we can't help but laugh.

Sometimes instead we just agree that we're going to pick one thing that the other person is doing that is driving us up the wall and talk about it. Not try to fix it. Just talk about how it make the angry one feel. And then talk about why we do these things anyway. We don't let it turn into a laundry list. We just pick the one thing that's driving us the most crazy and air it out. If we get to a solution that's gravy. The point is to just understand exactly how we're driving each other around the bend.

But it doesn't work to even try when one or both of us is too mad or sulking.

Sounds to me like maybe your DH is sulking. Sort of a passive aggressive attitude of you can tell me what to do but I"m still the boss of me sort of thing. The thing is if he gets a reward from his sulk it could just keep going. If he knows you're upset or you're stuck up a creek or whatever then his sulk is working. I hope he'll come around in just a little while. Grown people who should know better can pull the same kind of manipulative passive aggressive tricks we learn to expect from our kids you know

But try just going on about your life like nothing's happening. For instance can you borrow a friend or relative's car to go get your meds? Take the kids' car seats out of the car tonight so you'll have them if you can arrange to pick up those meds. Also pretend you don't notice you're being ignored. Chatter or make phone calls or be busy or whatever and just ignore him ignoring you.

[Honeysmom]

Well, as it turned out, just as I posted the last message he can barreling into the driveway. He ran in the house, said grab my wallet and get the kids in the car. We had to go and do our payday errands. So Honey is at his friends, bills are paid, and I have my meds. Short term crisis solved.

Now the bigger problem. I have for all the years I have been married played into passive aggressive behavior, but never realized it until I started attending the Al-anon meetings. It is a really hard cycle to break out of and I ran full force into a trap last night. What I should have done was not let him know how upset I was, and then stayed in bed until he left this morning, but I had to get up and say good-bye and I love you. I tend to be sort of needy sometimes, I have to work on that.

After about 10 minutes of beating around the bush in the car, I did get out of him that he feels unappreciated. He said that he works his butt off and feels like it is never good enough. Apparently I have been telling the wrong person (my best girlfriend) how hard he works and takes care of us. I should have been telling him.

I also feel the same way a lot of the time and I think we both have so much going on that we take each other for granted. It's not intentional, but it sure does makes waves. So I got off of my high horse and accepted my checkbook and bank card back. (oh yes, I recinded all banking priviliges for some reason last night) And apologized for making him feel that way. I could tell he was still mad, but it takes him a while to cool down, so I just left it.

Then after I dropped off Honey I stopped down by the barn and he took Avery for a tractor ride home since it was on his way and I made him a nice lunch to take along. He had his time to cool off by then and when he got out of the tractor I got a nice kiss and a real "I love you." Not one of those ones you get when you are in a hurry and running out of the door. Whenever I get a real one I know it will be ok, no matter what.

We are under a lot more stress then I realized, thanks Sierra for bringing it all to my attention! I think I will talk to him tonight and if it is stressing him out that much to work as much as he does, I am going to offer to get a more steady part-time job. With me going to school next year things will be more stressful and it probably is not fair of me to expect so much of him. Supporting 4 people probably is more work than I realized. On the flip side of that, I think we should talk about how we can show each other we do appreciate each other more. Like I think out loud, which he takes as criticism, and he could notice how much I do when he isn't here.

Thanks so much for your advice, both of you, it made me think and really helped me decide how to handle this. It is nice to know that we are not the only people who drive each other batty once in a while.

Becky

[HooDunnit]

I'll provide a man's response, and this might not make any sense to anyone but I'll try anyway. At one point in our marriage, I would say about 15 years ago, we hit a low point. My wife and I were seeming to lapse in our enthusiasm for each other. I realized that I wasn't particularly happy. But we had a son that was two and I wanted to continue to hang in there for my son's sake if nothing else. I figured that he needed a dad, or would do worse without one. I was interested in being a parent, if less so a husband. 15 years later, we have two more children, one of which died at birth, and my wife and I get along fine. Although there are some down times in relationships, there are also some up times. Sometimes, they are a few years apart. So you have to be patient or quiet through the down times, and wait for things to get better. As sierra I think it was wrote above, you go about your own stuff.

So I would promote his interest and care for his children. You have his bloodlines, so to speak. Even though he is not related to you, he is related to them. lol And men often have comments of their mothers echoing throught their heads, which they then transpose onto their wives. I'm sure this must be very frustrating for many women. So rather that working on your relationship with your dh, I would be promoting his relationship with his kids, and telling him what a good father he is, etc. Funny thing -- you just happen to be their mother too!! Look what comes in deal!!

Good luck Honeysmom,

Barry

[rosyred45]

I must say, Barry echos what I have felt before. Oh my Lord, say it ain't so. ;D

The BIGGEST grip I have on anyone, especially parents, is to complain about a person to the kids. It has always made me wonder what the point of complaining to the kids are? Your mother is a *****, your father is a ********. And that solves what problem? NONE.

OK, that said... Becky you are a strong woman. You have a husband ( read 3 kids, not 2) a house to care for, a part time job, yes, seirra is absolutely positively right. Don't make him think you are absolutely dependant on him, then he knows he has you. I think Mike said it best, when we have been talking about mind games, recently concerning the "friend".

Mike has his life, I have mine. We share the kids. He's actually been better about it since I pointed out the fact that when he is home, I still have the kids with me doing the fundraiser or meeting thing......duh, what is it with men? Sorry Barry, no offense to you dear. But I do appreciate and let him have his time too. I don't complain that he wants to stop and have a beer or two, except tonight because I just found out we have to show the house on Wednesday....different story.

BUT, I let Mike know that I worry about him. Not to the point of if he's in jail I'll automatically bail him. Depends why, but if it's a good reason, and if we had the money, I'd think about it. Not that he would do that. I just wanted to get you to smile.

OPEN CONVERSATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what I see is the most wrong. Like you said, you told your best friend how good he was, you didn't tell him. Mike needs to hear that stuff too, so do I. I won't lie, I like hearing that I am making a difference. As long as it is honest.

OH, gotta go get the house cleaned....talk to ya later
Kaiti

[Honeysmom]

Barry, it is really interesting that you put it that way. I can see what you mean in my own life sometimes.

I have heard many people say (especially the Church) that the marriage is the most important thing. The kids are supposed to be second, but neither of us have every been able to do that. The kids are always first for us, which is why it would be so hard to either of us to leave, even for a cooling off time.

We both know that would be so hard on our kids, Honey especially. He has a hard enough time accpeting that they days of the weeks change, let alone one of us moving out of the house. I know staying married for the kids is generally frowned upon, but I guess it depends on your situation. I think that people can live as friends, be married, and still raise their kids to value marriage. It is not all about romance and sex, truthfully, it can get a little ulgy at times, but I guess if we can work to get past that we have jumped another hurdle.

Since the new is filled with Regan's death, I have been hearing about love letters all day. It gave me an idea and I wrote Jerry a little letter telling him all of the things that I like and appriciate about him. I like to hear that kind of stuff, so I would imagine he would.

Becky

[finnmom]

Becky
Sound´s like you´re on the right track I love your love-letter idea, that´s a good one. Too often this everyday-work get´s to us and we take the significant other as granted At least I do that

You´ve got some really good advice´s, I agree that you seem to have so many stress-issues in your life, it´s no wonder you´re having a hard time with your hubby. I think it´s mainly because you know he´s there, you can consentrate to these other thing´s and in the while you´ll notice that he feel´s left out Our problem is that I tend to try to solve all the problem´s, control hole life around here, and then he feel´s that he´s left out of everything

Every parent/couple need´s time together, even if it´s only a walk or half an hour away from the kid´s, hey, even when you´re doing some work together when you can talk ;D I hope you can arrange that for you.
I feel so comforting if we are collecting some wood´s for winter together/without kid´s, even if we are working but we are together

Remember; it may seem hard now, but it´ll get better one day, then it´ll get worse...better...worse...better It´s called marriage ;D

I hope it´ll be a better day for all of you

Marja

[rosyred45]

Well, Marja said that quite nicely bad, good, bad, good

I wrote one on Friday before Regan passed. But that's just something Mike and I do. We'll know we are connected if the other takes the time to write. Then it goes from there, sometimes we just hug for a while, or sometimes the letter breaks the ice for issues that, if voiced to begin with, would start a fight.

Glad to see your happier now.
Got a call last night that we have to show the house tomorrow night, so back to cleaning.
Kaiti

[MomX2]

Please don't do this, "What I should have done was not let him know how upset I was, and then stayed in bed until he left this morning". Really I don't think that's what you should have done. Rather you need to do just the opposite and tell him how you're feeling (angry, depressed or whatever). You might want to say in advance that "this isn't you're fault and I'm not blaming you but this is how I feel right now". If you let him know you own your feelings then he might not feel he's being blamed for them. Then he might be more willing to try to help you. It probably would help if he chose to do more at home with you but if he is convinced everything is somehow his fault he may keep running away from it all and refusing to talk.