Hello & Intro.

[suz]

Hi! My name is Suzanne and I am new to the board. I am here mainly for my 9 y.o. DS who is diagnosed as being ADHD and mild Aspergers. We have tried many things to help him over the past several years including meds., behavior mod etc... This spring we began looking at 'alternatives'. We began the Feingold program in June. I am now looking to begin supplements and need help - it can be so confusing. We have had some success with FG but we have not figured it all out yet. DS is a very picky eater and between that and the elimination of some of his favorite foods due to FG stage 1, he has a very limited diet. It makes so much sense to me that his body must be needing more.

I have started him on fish oil (much to my delight he actually takes it!!!) He takes 1 tsp Carlson's finest fish oil which contains 800 mg EPA, 500 mg DHA and 300 mg "other" omega 3's. From what I've read here that seems like a good dose. Is that right?

That's all he's on right now because I'm having trouble deciding which other supplements to try. What forms of vitamins, magnesium/zinc do your kids take? DS will take small pills sometimes, chewables sometimes and liquids sometimes and not at other times. Any recommendations for good tasting or easy to swallow supplements? I am trying to avoid buying lots of supplements that he then will refuse to take due to pickiness.

I'm so glad to have found this board. I'm looking forward to learning a lot here!

Thanks, Suzanne

[AnneM]

Hi Suzanne and a warm welcome to our board ...

I can see that you are keen to find out as much as you can about the natural alternatives and if you look around this board I think you will find a lot of useful information which includes a lot about the fish oils ....

Take a look as well at the threads at the very top of his natural alternatives board which give lots of tips and good information for those starting out on the natural alternative route.

I wish you lots and lots of luck and look forward to seeing you around the board as a whole!

Anne

[HooDunnit]

Hi Suzanne and welcome to the forums. When my severely ADHD son was ten, we started him with a martial art (Hapkido). I realize that that wouldn't be best for everyone, but it sure worked well for him.

Barry

[rosyred45]

Welcome Suzanne, we are glad you found us.

I also do Feingold, but I still haven't figured all the ins and outs of supplements, so I can't help you out much there.

There is excellent resources that help here, look around. I have found that if I just typ ein for a search, that is just as helpful as there might be an answer for one of your questions.

Welcome again
Kaiti

[DenverSarah]

I do FG and supplements as well and have gotten about as far in the past year as I suspect we can get. Kids' doing much better as far as anger and aggresison but is still way behind academically and I can see it hurting his self-image.
For supplements questions...I would try to answer you but I know Cat is much better at that stuff so I won't even try LOL!
I'm sure she'll drop in her 2 cents sometime. If not, I'll be back later and will do my best to fill her shoes

[suz]

Thanks all for the replies. I can see there is a lot of resources on this board to investigate. I will be doing that as soon as I can. I don't always get as much time on the computer as I would like!

Barry - I agree that Karate can be very helpful for ADHD people. Both my DH and I studied for many years and I presonnally benefited from it tremendously! It really did help my attention problems as well as give me a true sense of accomplishment (I am NOT much of an athelete so to succeed in Karate was amazing to me). Since I felt sooo strongly that it would benefit our son we started him in it a few years ago. Unfortunately he has lost interst. Basically he got to the point where it was hard and required extra effort/practice and he decided he doesn't like it anymore. We are taking a break from it but I will try to encourage him to try it again in the future.

Thanks again,

Suzanne

[HooDunnit]

Hi Suz

Well, a couple of thoughts. From what I've heard about it, maybe karate IS hard. But the various martial arts differ a bit from each other. I tried our son first with Kung Fu, and that was a complete failure. But Hapkido worked great. Aikido is also interesting.

One observation I made as a parent was that as the training in Hapkido got more onerous (especially for children) the ones that continued had parents that would watch the classes. The ones that quit had parents who would drop them off and pick them up an hour later.

Yes, and lots of the class were girls -- great thing.

Barry

[suz]

Hi Barry - Yes, karate styles vary quite a bit as do studios. Part of DS's difficulties stem from him not wanting to do the hard things (he has not quite gotten the fact that if you practice you can get better) and the studio he was at has big class sizes. DS definetly would do better with a smaller class size.

Interesting you mentioned about staying vs. dropping off. We stayed during class for quite a while but eventually started dropping him off because his class time conflicted with other family events. I wonder if that has anything to do with his waning interest...food for thought...thanks!

Suzanne

[DenverSarah]

Well I see Cat hasn't popped in so I found the best post of hers I could find that gives a general overview of what supplements to start with and some other info as well:

I highly recommend getting Laura Stevens' book "12 Effective Ways to Help Your ADD/ADHD Child", which you can order through her website at users.nlci.com/nutrition/ or may be able to find in your library. It's an excellent overview of non-medication approaches to treating ADHD, very readable, and also very specific.

To start with, a general vitamin supplement which includes trace minerals is the first step. Make sure that it contains zinc (15mg), copper (1mg) along with manganese and selenium in small quantities. If you select one with at least 100IU of Vitamin E, you will not need a separate Vitamin E supplement when you begin using Omega-3. If your son doesn't do pills, you can try a liquid like Child Life which, at 3 tsps daily, would provide adequate general nutrition at a cost of about $15 per month. You can take a look at it here:
www.herbaladvisor.com/shop/xq/asp/ptid.14780/qx/productDetail.htm

Since 95% of all children with ADHD are magnesium deficient to some degree, a magnesium supplement is also advisable. Chewable magnesium is widely available. Start at a low level, though, as the magnesium citrate it's made from is particularly bad about causing stomach side effects (cramping and diarrhea, usually mild, usually passes within a couple of days). Nutricology makes a magnesium chloride liquid that should be easier on the stomach, but at a cost of roughly $11 per month, it is much more costly than chewables. You can see it here:
www.herbaladvisor.com/shop/xq/asp/ptid.36946/qx/productDetail.htm

You don't say how much your son weighs, but he's pretty young, if I remember correctly, somewhere around 4 or 5? Normally, you'd figure a therapeutic dose of magnesium at 6mg per pound of body weight, but for a youngster, you need to start low and build up gradually. Liquid is nice for that because it's easy to adjust the dose. If you started him on 100mg and built up to 250mg slowly you'd avoid the possibility of giving him diarrhea.

Magnesium really is critical. Take a look at some of the research at www.mgwater.com for more info.

Omega-3 is the final of the "big three" that you need to start off. OhMama is extremely knowledgeable about the various types of Omega-3 out there and which brands are purest and where to find them. Research has demonstrated that 480mg DHA is a threshhold dose, so you want to give that much.

Those are the most important start-up supplements. Keep in mind that supplements work very differently from medications in that you will rarely see immediate results. A fatty acid deficiency, for example, can take 3 months to correct. Magnesium deficiency can take far longer. Generally, you will notice real improvement within 6 weeks. Once that happens, and once you're established on a supplement routine, you may want to add other things. B-vitamins, for example, can have dramatic effects. But those 6 weeks give you the time to gather more information and plan further adjustments based on your child's risk factors. Lots of courses of antibiotics as a risk factor, for example, may lead you to decide you ought to use acidopholus for a while.

On the Feingold diet, it has been a miracle for my son. Simply putting him on Feingold eliminated bedwetting, sleep problems, 75% of the oppositional behavior, and once corn syrup was removed as well, temper tantrums have become a thing of the past except for rare exceptions. It really is worth checking into. Membership is $70 for a year and I think it's the best investment I've made on my boy's behalf.

You asked what was a waste of time, so I'll tell you I've found most of the ADHD remedies sold are a joke. They're expensive and rarely have sufficient quantities of the nutrients you need and because they are a "one size fits all" they'll also often contain things you don't need or that may actually make your child worse. Avoid them and select your own supplements. There are a few exceptions, of course, but just be sure you examine any combo-type natural "cure" with a great deal of caution.

[ohmama]

Thanks for taking care of that Sarah! I know Catatonic would appreciate it that so many parents are able to benefit from her research. She is a very special and giving individual in that sense.

[catatonic]

OhMama, you're making me blush And Sarah, I'll have to go get myself a bigger hat to accomodate my swelled head now that I've actually been

"quoted"

Suzanne, welcome. We are also F-e-i-n-g-o-l-d Stage 1 (looks like pretty much permanently since salicylates don't work well here). It makes sense that with the loss of so many health vitamin-rich foods on Stage 1, you'd want to provide a little extra nutritional support. Take a look at the Kirkman Labs multi-vitamins, they're quite good quality. If I had to pick my top 5 favorite supplements I'd have to say:

1.) Essential fatty acids...including Omega 3 (DHA/EPA) and Omega 6 (Evening Primrose Oil/GLA). We use Natural Factors Rx-Omega-3, and a 500mg EPO capsule.

2.) MAGNESIUM...(yes, I can imagine everyone rolling their eyes saying, "There she goes on the magnesium kick again.") DO NOT buy magnesium oxide. This is not a bio-available form of magnesium. Pick anything else. We are using KAL Magnesium Glycinate, with 400mg elemental magnesium in 2 capspules. My son weighs 85 pounds and takes 2 capsules.

3.) Anti-oxidants...Vitamin E, Vitamin C, grape seed extract...take your pick. Just take one. (Vitamin E is very important to take in conjunction with the Omegas. It's what we use.)

4.) Something cholinergic...that is, something that will increase the amount of the neurotransmitter choline. You can try lecithin granules, lecithin capsules, DMAE. I like the lecithin granules personally, but DMAE is probably more concentrated and more convenient.

5.) Tyrosine...this amino acid is very successful for us. My son has "classic" ADHD, where increasing the neurotransmitter dopamine is an effective treatment, and tyrosine can help do this. (It's what th prescription drug Ritalin also does.) I give my son 750mg twice a day. I actually think 500mg 3 times a day would be better, but I'm not driving to school just to give him tyrosine!! If tyrosine doesn't seem to do much, try working on increasing serotonin instead...and some people do both.

Whatever you decide to use, remember to start slowly. Supplements, just like foods, can cause negative reactions. (We've purchased plenty of supplements my son ended up being unable to tolerate.) Begin one thing at a time and wait several weeks before adding a new one. And don't expect that this will make an immediate impact. It can take 6-12 weeks to correct a fatty acid deficiency. We saw very noticeable improvement about 6 weeks after beginning supplementation.

And by the way, on your original question, yes you are giving your son an ideal amount of DHA and EPA.

[catatonic]

You know, every time I type in F-e-i-n-g-o-l-d without all the stupid dashes, it comes up saying "silverman".

[HooDunnit]

lol

Please see the non-ADHD forum thread on our anniversary contest.

Then come back tomorrow and read these threads. Wherever you have written "Feingold" properly, it will say "Feingold" and not "Silverman". There may be other disturbances leading up to Oct. 27. Every time you spot one, you are given one point! But any disturbance is only temporary. We change everything back. In fact, it seems to be changed already!

Barry

[catatonic]

Okay, you got me good on that one, Barry!

I guess, since I've been away for a while, I must have missed the heads-up. I'll turn my sense of humor back on now.

[HooDunnit]

It is ssooooooooo nice to have you back. And who could expect that one?

When we get around to magnesium, what do you think we should turn it into?

We had "omega-3" as "ohmama-3" for a while and that was BEFORE our contest began. We just couldn't resist.