Turmeric and L-arginine - ? for Catatonic

[Mayleng]

Hi Cat, it's me again with more questions. Can you tell me a little about Turmeric and L-arginine ? Are they helpful for attention or hyperness? One of our members, has been using Cal/Mag,Turmeric and L-arginine for her child (they are under the care of a herbologist) and she has had some success with this combo. Not so much for the hyper/impulsiveness yet (still have not reached that level), but she said his attention has improved. I am wondering which is improving the attention - the Cal/mag or the other two.

As usual thank you for letting me pick your brains. ;D

By the way, am staring my son on Lecithin today. So his regiment is Cal/mag with vit D, Omega3 with Vit E, Multivitamins, Lecithin and Ritalin LA.

[catatonic]

This is a very interesting question. As a treatment for ADHD, the use of arginine is purely speculative at this point...some promising animal research, but that's it. But that small body of animal research on arginine as it might relate to ADHD makes me think it's worth looking into.

Arginine is an amino acid, one widely available from foods (dairy, meat, chicken, fish, nuts, chocolate). Arginine serves several functions in your body. Not being a biochemist, I don't understand most of them. I do grasp that it's used to make nitric oxide which is involved in a number of cardiovascular processes. Because of this, arginine's major therapeutic uses -- and the ones that draw all the medical research attention -- are in treatment of high blood pressure, congestive heart failure, atherosclerosis, etc.. It's usefulness for a variety of cardiac conditions has been confirmed in human clinical trials. For a good overview of arginine and what it may do see the December 2002 issue of Alternative Medicine Review. The article -- which does NOT mention ADHD at all -- is available on line here:
www.thorne.com/pdf/journal/7-6/arginine7-6.pdf

So what does this have to do with ADHD? Well, maybe nothing. But maybe nitric oxide plays a role in ADHD as well as coronary function.

Recent animal research using hyperactive rats (I always wonder where they get so many hyperactive rats...feed normal ones Froot Loops until they go crazy?) researchers manipulated nitric oxide levels in the little rat brains (pharmaceutically, not by using arginine) and found that the rats paid attention longer and weren't as hyper when the nitric oxide levels went up.

In one study (link to abstract below) increasing nitric oxide levels was found to reduce hyperactive rat behavior:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9754884

Another brand new study found that artificially induced hyperactivity (using the industrial solvent toluene) was subsequently reduced by giving the rats arginine:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15118807

2 articles published in Neuroscience Biobehavioral Review (Jan 2000, Aspide et al) and Behavioral Brain Research (March of 2002, Grammatikopoulos et al) claim to confirm the role of nitric oxide in the rat model of attention deficit/hyperactivity.

Soooo, what does this mean? I think it indicates arginine COULD be useful in treating ADHD symptoms. WILL it? Who knows, at this point. Researchers already know that arginine does VERY different things when it's tested in a testtube and when it's tested in an animal. No real way to predict what it might do in humans.

I'd put my money on the magnesium for improving attentiveness. That's been my personal experience with it, and I think there's a firmer scientific basis for it. However, I wouldn't write off the arginine. There's a certain logic to using it, but it's based on theoretical possibilities rather than any actual evidence that it does anything.

I'm glad to hear you started lecthin. I think it's great stuff. Even my "normal" children (and I'm really stretching the boundaries of the word normal here) drink a breakfast shake with lecithin in the mornings.

Oh yeah...almost forgot...turmeric.
I can find no evidence that turmeric has any impact on ADHD whatsoever, nor could I find anyone claiming that it does. So my guess is that it's being provided for its anti-oxidant value. It's a decent natural anti-oxidant. Turmeric is very high in natural salicylates, however,so anyone who follows the Feingold diet should NOT take it.

[Mayleng]

catatonic said:

Recent animal research using hyperactive rats (I always wonder where they get so many hyperactive rats...feed normal ones Froot Loops until they go crazy?) .

I fell off my chair I was laughing so hard. I did have the same question too, where DO they find all these hyper rats. ;D ;D

Thanks Catatonic for taking the time to research for me.

[catatonic]

Believe it or not, they have selective breeding programs for research rats. There are entire strains devoted to specific characteristics. They have high-excitability rats, high-anxiety rats, high blood pressure rats, even an entire strain that loves liquor (the alcoholic rat strain)! Researchers can get out their little rat catalogues and pick the wierd rat characteristics they want. I still think it would be easier to get them hyper by feeding them Froot Loops, though.

[Mayleng]

catatonic said:

Believe it or not, they have selective breeding programs for research rats. There are entire strains devoted to specific characteristics. They have high-excitability rats, high-anxiety rats, high blood pressure rats, even an entire strain that loves liquor (the alcoholic rat strain)! Researchers can get out their little rat catalogues and pick the wierd rat characteristics they want. I still think it would be easier to get them hyper by feeding them Froot Loops, though.

LOL! You never fail to amaze me.

[rosyred45]

Mayleng, I wanted to put the same thing, cept I forgot how to quote

That is too funny, do they do that with other animals or just rats? since that's what they are testing with?

[DenverSarah]

Off the subject but interesting nonetheless...

To get rats for studies on obesity normal rats are fed neonatally with MSG. Seems MSG causes obesity in rats even if when they eat the same amount of food as their normal counterparts. Rats used for obesity studies are even called "MSG obese rats", and the condition is called MSG obesity. Just some food (MSG free) for thought!

[catatonic]

Now I've got ANOTHER good reason to avoid MSG. (I know, who needs ANOTHER one...) Thanks for sharing your fat rat story.

[Mayleng]

Ok, I have to say this, most chinese people (me included) take msg in their food. You really don't see alot of obese Chinese people walking around, do you?

I wonder if it only happens to rats. Hmmmm.....

[DenverSarah]

I don't know that's an interesting point.
I just know what I've read. Aside from the effect it has on rats, which may or may not have the same effect on people ( I suspect it's similar in proportion to saccharine studies in that the effects are a result if a a VERY large amount that a person would be unlikely to consume)there are a lot of good reasons to avoid MSG.

Monosodium glutamate is described as a Mutagen and Reproductive Effector by the Center for Disease Control in their Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances.

While not all people have noticable physical effects from the consumption of MSG, but in my opinion it is a good idea for all of us to avoid it whenever possible. That's just me though!