New Here and Lots of Questions

[DanielsMomNDad]

Hello Everyone,
All I can say is Thak God I have found this website and you all! I have been browsing the messages for a couple of weeks now and have many questions....

For starters, I think we aren't giving enough supplements to our DS (8 years old, diagnosed with ADHD, Aspergers Syndrom, Sensory Integration Disorder, possible bipolar and touretts. No Meds).

I was only giving him Omega 3. Garden of Life Olde World Icelandic Cod Liver Oil (DHA 453 and EPA 320) 1 tsp 3 times per day. But, probably need to change because of the Vitamin A 4500 IU per tsp. This brand also has Vitamin E 5 IU per tsp. Is this enough?

Last week I started him on Child Life Multi Vitamin and Mineral. 1 tsp 3 times per day. This also has Vitamin A (retinol palmitate 850 IU per 2 tsp).

From my reading, I know that I need to start giving him magnesium. Do you know of a good chewable brand?

Also, Lecithin. Any recommendations?

I have learned so much from everyone especially Catonic and Ohmama in the last 2 weeks! Thank you all for your support and encouragement!

As a side note: After reading the Amen Book, much prayer and talking with Ohmama, we have scheduled an appointment for our son at the Amen Clinic. This Friday is his first appointment. We are very excited about it. I'll let you know how it goes.

[finnmom]

Hi Danielsmomanddad

Wellcome

I bet catatonic will give you good answer to your question´s about natural alt. Have you tried our surch-engine? try magnesium and see what come´s out.

I think your A-vit. level sound´s too high, but then again, I ám no expert on this.

I just wanted to say Hi and wellcome, I think you´ll find this board very helpfull.

[catatonic]

Welcome, DanielsMomNDad -
I'm glad you found us, and I hope your trip to the Amen Clinic lives up to your expectations. Please do keep us posted on your progress.

On your supplements...I'm not clear whether the amount of Omega-3 you list is the amount you are giving per day or whether that is the amount per dose. If that is per dose, then you are giving a LOT of Omega-3 and will want to be careful of the effects of its anti-coagulant activity. (Have you noticed any increased tendency towards nose bleeds, or minor cuts that bleed more freely than usual?) If it's per day, then you're in the ball park, although you may want to look for a supplement that provides higher levels of EPA.

If you take a look at the research on Omega-3 supplementation and ADHD, 480mg DHA appears to be a threshold dose, so you want to give at least that much. Opinion varies on the amount of EPA that ought to be included with that, but newer research seems to be leading in the direction of concluding that it is most helpful to include higher amounts of EPA. I know that Omega-3 is not successful for my son unless he is getting at least 760mg EPA daily, in addition to the DHA, so we stick to a capsule that is quite high in EPA.

Regardless of which type of Omega-3 you use, it's advisable to include 200IU of Vitamin E, split into two doses. (Some experts will advise as much as 400IU Vitamin E daily.) I buy tiny 100IU capsules and give one in the a.m. and one in the p.m., along with the fish oil capsules.

On Vitamin A...as long as it is in the form of beta carotene, you have no need to worry about the quantity, since the body will synthesize what it needs without risk of toxicity. Pre-formed Vitamin A is the risk, and that includes retinol palmitate. For an 8-year-old, the upper tolerable limit is 3,000IU per day of pre-formed Vitamin A. Above this, you risk toxicity.

Magnesium, you're right, is essential. We've found that chewables tend to be a bit harder on the digestive system, so make sure to begin with a low dose and work up to your target level. Therapeutic dose is 6mg per pound of body weight. Maintenance dose is 3mg per pound of body weight. When looking for magnesium, the one thing you absolutely want to avoid is magnesium oxide...it's bioavailability is so low you might as well not be taking anything. Chewables are typically magnesium citrate, and they can be difficult to find unless in combination with calcium. Kirkman Labs produces a powdered magnesium citrate that is free of artificial ingredients and most common allergens. It dissolves easily in pretty much everything. A child of 70 pounds would take 1 tsp. daily, for 400mg magnesium. (Start slowly, though, it's likely to cause tummy troubles otherwise while adjusting to it.)
www.kirkmanlabs.com/products/minerals/magnesium/Mag_Citrate_P_8_Spec239.html

I just go with inexpensive bulk lecithin products. I buy a 2 pound jar of the "Now" brand, which is readily available in our local health food store and I blend it into a breakfast shake. There are also capsules available, but it's difficult to get enough unless you want to take a LOT of capsules. Regular lecithin use seems to have a noticeable calming effect on my son.

You don't mention dietary changes. I'd recommend taking a look at the Feingold Program (http://www.feingold.org ). This has been enormously successful for us. Among other things, following the diet faithfully pretty much eliminates my son's vocal tics. (When off-diet, he is prone to squealing noises that sound like a P.E. whistle and several other annoying sounds.)

Hope this helps some. Please do keep us updated on how things are going with you.

[DanielsMomNDad]

Thank you so much for all the information! Catatonic you are amazing!

A couple more questions....

We really like the liquid Omega 3. Is there a liquid that you would recommed? I found Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega Liquid: 1/2 tsp = EPA 875 mg, DHA 625mg and Vitamin E 14 IU. With these levels would I only need to give him 1/2 tsp per day?? With an additional Vitamin E?

How much lecithin is theraputic?

We do modify his diet with lots of protien and little processed or artificial food. I will check out the Fiengold Diet, sounds really difficult but may be well worth the effort.

Thanks Again!

[catatonic]

The Nordic Naturals are all excellent products, about the best out there. They're a little more expensive, but the quality and purity are high. I give my 3-year-old the liquid (only 1/4 tsp daily since she's small). A scant 1/2 tsp dose would be perfect for an older child. Do add Vitamin E with it. An additional 200IU would be good. (400IU won't hurt, if you'd prefer.)

For lecithin, I'd recommend using about one tablespoon of the granules. Not sure of the dosing for capsules, since I don't use them, but I believe to get the equivalent amount you'd need to take about 10 or 12 capsules.

Hope this helps!

[savvymom1]

Welcome! I have a 13 yar old daughter who has ADD and Asperger's. You are doing a great job of researching supplements that will be beneficial for your child.

I have not tried many alternative natural medicines or supplements (although I think omega 3 is very good!).

I don't know if you are at all interested in prescription medications, but I will share that zoloft has been the saving grace for us as far as her Asperger's. It helped our daughter relax and not be so stressed and rigid. Her "Automatic No's" seemed to lessen considerably after a few weeks on zoloft. She is doing great and has been taking it for almost two years now.

I realize the Natural Alternatives section is probably not appropriate for this suggestion, but zoloft helped our Asperger's child so much, I felt I should mention it. Good luck with your program!

[rosyred45]

Welcome to the forums, and we really are glad that you found us. Feingold isn't as hard as it might seem. I come from a family where we make everything anyway, so you can take that with a grain of salt. The hardest thing for us with Feingold is the salycitates. I keep trying to reitro them to my son, but to no avail. He loves tomatoes, grapes, apples, everything that his body doesn't tolerate well. BUT he gets so dang whiney and arguementative and hard headed, it is a bit to put up with unless I am in the mood.
(or if we send him to the inlaws that don't pay attention to what they give him anyhow )

Anyhow, I hope that you find something that works. And savvymom, don't worry, we won't berate you too much If it works for you, it might open a door for someone else, thanks for the imput

[DanielsMomNDad]

Hi All,
Thank you for your encouragement and replies.

We have tried different medications for Daniel (ritalin, adderal, chlonodine, celexa) all with VERY negative side effects. The University California Davis Mind Institute Pshychiatrist now wants to try Risperdal. With all the negative side effects Daniel has suffered through from meds, we have decided to try other alternatives before agreeing to try the meds again.

I agree that each child is very different and has different needs. Some might need medication, some might need behavior modification, some might need, natural remedies, some might need ocupational therapy, some might need any combination of all the above and more (all of which we have tried, some with great success). BUT, I want more definative answers before we try the heavy meds with Daniel because of how sensitive his body is to them.

I am truly hoping and praying that the Amen Clinic will provide us with more concrete answers than just trial and error with meds.

I have to say that this forum has been the most enlightening and encouraging resource I have found yet.

I have been giving Daniel omega 3 and multi vitamins faithfully for the last couple of weeks. We have seen a huge difference. He is not as reactive and emotional as before. I have ordered magnesium, vitamin E, and lecithin and can't wait to begin with them.

I also signed up as a member to the Feingold Program day before yesterday. I am patiently waiting for it's arrival but went to the grocery store yesterday with a very specific list.

I just want to say thank you for your support and advice.

[catatonic]

I sincerely hope this will be successful for you. With meds or without them, our children can be so very difficult to deal with. I don't think parents of so-called "normal" children recognize the daily challenge that this is for us. It can be overwhelmingly stressful, frustrating, discouraging, depressing. In the good phases, we see what wonderful, bright, creative, affectionate children we have. In the bad phases, we desperately want nothing more than peace at home for a single hour and wonder how we can go on for another day with the chaos and conflict and stress. (We're having a difficult day here, in case it's not obvious enough from my gloomy philosophizing.)

Each child's ADHD is like a puzzle, where you first have to go find the pieces and then figure out how they fit together, all the while knowing at least half those pieces are still probably lost somewhere. Natural methods of treatment DO work, particularly if you begin by targeting problem areas common to most ADHD children...like the Omega-3 and the magnesium. To me, it's worth it to avoid medication risks and side-effects, and also because the medications don't "cure" any underlying problems or teach any new skills. It's not an easy choice...particularly if the choice you're faced with is between your own sanity vs. keeping your child med-free. We all struggle to do the best we can for our difficult children. Whatever treatment methods you use, you'll find help and support here.

Just as a side note, read up on Risperdal carefully before deciding to use it. It's a powerful anti-psychotic and among its potential side-effects are irreversible Tardive dyskinesia, and potentially fatal neuroleptic malignant syndrome. It's also a demonstrated tumorgenic agent in animals at levels only twice the concentration of human prescriptions. You can read the manufacturer's package insert information here:
www.risperdal.com/files/risperdal.pdf
There's also a resource for examining medical literature on risperdal by research category here:
www.mentalhealth.com/drugrs/f33-r05.html

[DanielsMomNDad]

Catatonic, sorry your having a bad day. I know how that goes...school starts in 10 days and Daniel just asked, "Mom, when am I ever going to go back to school?" He's been on break since the end of May and it seems like a very looonnnggg summer. He has a 4 year old brother that is his shadow and often drives him crazy, considering Daniel likes to play alone most of the time.

As far as the risperdal goes, yes, this is why we chose not to use it on a trial basis. Considering the side effects and his previous reactions we were not willing to take the chance. I want to try all other measures before having to resort to something that has the potential to be so damaging.

Hang in there, I pray that your day will be better tomorrow!

[DanielsMomNDad]

I meant Potential to be so damaging....