Catatonic......advice for tics?

[fiore]

Catatonic, after reading several postings, I have to agree with Mayleng.......your the bomb, so having said that, are you aware of any alternative methods in aiding with tics? My dd is 6yrs old and is currently on Strattera (6 months) for ADD. By and large I am happy with its results and there appear to be no side effects, other than it makes her sleepy (we give it to her at night). In addition to her ADD she has tics. She has had them since she was 3 but only until recently did they become worse (within the last month). Before, they were very slight and would come and go. Now, they have taken over her and her friends at school and other people notice them. Have there been any changes to diet or environment? No. Do I think Strattera has had any effect? No. As I said she has had them since she was 3 and from what I have read and been told by her psy Strattera has no effect, go or bad with tics.

Have you heard of Bontich supplements (www.bonniegr.com) or Dr. Bruce Semon (www.nutritioninstitute.com)? I'm currently getting educated on what they have to say about nutrition, allergies, tics and treatments. I know its a lot to ask, but if you haven't heard of them, would you mind looking at this information and giving me your opinion? I'm just so desperate to help my dd. Sometimes she gets so frustrated with herself, she asks me to help her stop. It breaks my heart, that I can't make them go away for her . Sorry to ramble, but ANY advice from you or anyone with experience with tics would be greatly appreciated.

[HooDunnit]

Hi fiore and welcome to the forums. I believe that some people have found that Strattera can make tics begin or get worse, but others find the opposite. There doesn't seem to be a clear pattern in general, but there may be a clear pattern for your child. So you may want to keep experimenting.

[catatonic]

Hi Fiore, and welcome -
I have to admit, I'm not familiar with treatments aimed specifically at tics. I have heard of Bontech and know that the company and its founder Bonnie Grimaldi have a good reputation. She's published her list of supplements recommended for Tourrette's Syndrome on the web for those who wish to duplicate it rather than purchasing her prepared formulas (and it is NOT nearly as complicated as it looks). There's also information on specific foods to avoid. You can find the article here:
www.tourette-syndrome.com/holistic.htm

I hadn't heard of the Wisconsin Institute of Nutrition before, but in taking a glance at the website, it appears that treatment there focuses on treating yeast overgrowth. This is an area I feel very ambiguous about, in part because research on the subject is scant and generally low quality, and in part because as the flavor of the month in natural treatments it has attracted more than its share of quacks and charlatans.

Generally, yeast treatments focus on dietary changes (removing sugar/starch that yeast feeds on), use of probiotics (generally acidophilus), and use of an anti-yeast agent such as grapefruit seed extract. With a doctor's help, you can use prescription antifungal medication such as nystatin (sometimes course of treatment is quite lengthy) to kill the yeast.

Do these treatments work? Does yeast have anything at all to do with ADHD? It's not easy to determine that. Information on alternative treatments is always rather sketchy and tends to be poor in quality. This area is even worse than usual.

There is some evidence that acidophilus will help reduce candida yeast infection. There's also some evidence that anti-fungal drugs won't. (See www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2247104&dopt=Abstract )

But does candida really contribute in any way to ADHD symptoms? That's pretty close to impossible to answer.

According to Quack Watch, the entire candidiasis craze is based on lousy science and a complete lack of evidence. You can read their summary called "Dubious Yeast Allergies" here:
www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/candida.html

In several states, physicians have been censured by the medical board and even prosecuted by the attorney general for claiming that yeast causes anything and that they can treat yeast problems. The Federal Trade Commission has fined companies for making claims that thier products treat yeast overgrowth.

On the other hand, Dr. William Crook (the pioneer in this treatment area and author of "The Yeast Connection") makes a very convincing argument for his yeast overgrowth theory. There's an interview with him here:
www.latitudes.org/articles/hy_yeast.html

If you find the information on yeast overgrowth convincing, you may want to attempt treatment. Since it's inexpensive and can't harm you, why not? Get some acidophilus capsules (about $10 in the refrigerated section of your health food store) buy a bottle of grapefruit seed extract (about $10 for a 2 oz. bottle which is plenty for treating a child) and get rid of the sugar in his diet (ALL of it...no soda, no desert, limited breads). Give it a month and see what happens.

Hope this is some help to you. Tics are difficult to treat, since they don't seem to really know what causes them or how to stop them. Something you may want to consider is having your daughter tested for PANDAS, if her tic symptoms might have emerged following a strep infection. Research on PANDAS is not very extensive at this point, but it appears that this strep complication may be responsible for tics (and other things) in at least a subgroup of children. You might want to take a look at the article here:
jnnp.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/74/5/602

And Barry is right that Strattera may produce tics as a side effect (see www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12679740 ) but if your daughter's tics began before she started on medication, then this is probably not a factor in your case.

[fiore]

Catatonic
Thank you so much for your quick response, links, and research. Like everyone else, you have a family and spare time is valuable.........thank you for letting me have some it. I think my first step will be taking my dd to get an allergy test, before I start drastically changing her diet, or starting a new regime. We already stay away from soda, juices, and high sugary foods.

After reading so much, it gets to become overwellming and you don't know where to start. Thanks again for your input and opinion. I'll keep you posted with our progress and any new questions.
fiore

[catatonic]

You're right, it is overwhelming. I've turned my son into an experimental laboratory animal trying to discover what works for him and what doesn't. A huge part of the problem is that there is no single cause for ADHD. There are, apparently, many contributing factors. Each has different treatment implications, and sometimes what will help one child will make another one worse.

The only things that seem to be universally positive for children with ADHD are Omega-3 (fish oil) supplements, the addition of generous amounts of magnesium, and plenty of lecithin. Everything else is a gamble.

In addition to "the big three", it doesn't hurt to experiment a little. Things that pose little risk and seem promising - like acidophilus and grapefruit seed extract - are a good place to start.

I think testing for allergies is an excellent decision. There is very solid evidence that hidden food allergies are tied to tics and to full-blown Tourette's. A thorough blood workup might be advisable, since it might help you pinpoint nutritional deficiencies that could be contributing to the tics.

I wish you the best of luck. Keep us all updated.

[lisle]

Hi,
Does anyone know if you are allergic to soy whether you can take lethicin supplements? Isn't it soy?
lisle

[catatonic]

That's a really good question. Lecithin is generally derived from soy.

Some soybean allergy sources recommend avoiding lecithin if you're allergic to soy. (University of Illinois' soybean page has some good allergy information.)
www.ag.uiuc.edu/~stratsoy/expert/faqs/soyfaq6.html

Others claim that individuals who are allergic to soy can often consume lecithin without a problem:
www.foodallergy.org/topics_archive/lecithin.html

www.mountcarmelhealth.com/healthinfo/Adult/allergy/soy.shtml

www.med.umich.edu/1libr/pa/pa_soyall_hhg.htm

Depending on how severe the soy allergy is, you may wish to avoid lecithin (after all, no one wants to experience anaphylactic shock!) or you may want to test lecithin to see if it's tolerated.

Lecithin CAN be produced from other oil seeds, such as canola, rapeseed and sunflower seeds. It's also abundant in egg yolks (not used for supplements because of short shelf life). It is VERY hard to find lecithin that is not soy.

There are a couple of UK source for sunflower lecithin:
www.nutricentre.com/pages/Browse.aspx?dept=Nutritional+Supplements&sub-dept=Essential+Fatty+Acids+(EFA)

www.greensfoods.co.uk/index.asp/page=item/itemid=3158

Sorry, I don't know of a U.S. source. Surely there are some, but I haven't heard of them.