Question for Catatonic

[Mayleng]

Hi, I hope you can answer this question. I was asking Ohmama and she suggested i ask you instead.

I read your links about Magnesium - great link by the way, thanks - and it most cases it states that Hyper ADHD kids are probably low in Magnesium, so supplementing it for them would help in the Hyperactivity. My son is Not hyper nor have any mood disorder. He is basically ADD/Inattentive. Does this mean he is not magnesium deficient? I am weary about giving him the cal/mag pills because one of the article in the link you gave cautioned about giving too much cal/mag to kids who don't need it.

Thanks for you help.

[catatonic]

Hi Mayleng -
I'll start with the safety issue first...

The possibility for consuming toxic levels of magnesium is VERY low. Excess magnesium is normally excreted quite effectively in your urine and the only real problem you might see is loose bowels. Unless you're taking huge amounts of Epsom salts by mouth or other laxatives such as Milk of Magnesia and in addition you suffer from kidney disease such as renal insufficiency, it's difficult to harm yourself with magnesium. (Except for the risk of diarrhea, which is easily fixed by reducing the dose.) According to the physician's standard treatment reference, The Merck Manual:

"Symptomatic hypermagnesemia is fairly uncommon, but when it does occur it usually does so in patients with renal failure after ingestion of Mg-containing drugs such as antacids or purgatives."

According to NIH, even the mildest of intestinal discomfort is unlikely if you are taking 350mg or less of magnesium per day. (Remember, this is the ELEMENTAL magnesium content, not the weight of the compound. My son takes a 500mg magnesium chloride tablet that provides 60mg elemental magnesium.) Numerous studies on therapeutic use of magnesium have exceeded this amount, however I wouldn't advise doing so without consulting a medical professional.

Magnesium deficiency is much more common, particularly if you suffer from any digestive malabsorption problem (like celiac disease or gluten sensitivity), have diabetes, take antibiotics. Magnesium deficiency is linked to a number of conditions including asthma, anxiety, hyperactivity, tourette's.

Calcium toxicity is also rare, but taking too much calcium can result in calcium phosphate deposits in the body's soft tissues. (Kidney stones, for example.) I wouldn't worry about this as long as you are giving no more than 2,500mg of calcium per day. (This is the upper limit established by the National Institutes of Health and published by the National Academies of Science in their reference volume "Dietary Reference Intakes: Applications in Dietary Assessment" and it is a very conservative figure.)

When you take calcium supplements, you should not take more than 500mg at one time and ideally you should take it with food.

Bottom line: unless you are choking down these cal/mag tablets like popcorn, you shouldn't need to worry about it.

On effectiveness...

While magnesium's impact on HYPERACTIVITY has been studied quite a few times, it's effect on attentiveness has not. Probably this is because hyperactivity is much easier to measure and is normally the presenting symptom that gets a child referred for treatment. Inattentiveness is quiet and non-disruptive, it's difficult to measure, and it gets ignored.

Experience leads me to believe that magnesium (in conjunction with Omega-3 and lecithin) does impact attentiveness. However, my son DEFINITELY qualifies as hyperactive, so reducing his hyperactivity may simply make him appear more attentive. I know that magnesium supplements, given regularly and in sufficient quantity, calm him. He's also able to stay on-task for longer periods of time, can work more independently, and is actually able to focus on reading. To me these are improvements in attentiveness.

If you'd like to test for magnesium deficiency, there's an overview of the type of laboratory tests available and their comparative accuracy:
www.diagnose-me.com/treat/T347488.html

On the other hand, you can do the Cvostek test at home. Despite its simplicity, it is generally considered a reliable indicator of magnesium deficiency. To perform this test, have your child sit upright in a chair in front of you. With one finger, tap in the hollow of the cheek, halfway between the earlobe and the corner of the mouth. (Don't tap on teeth!) If you see a resulting twitch or jump of the upper lip beneath the nose, then magnesium deficiency is likely.

Hope this helps some.

[Mayleng]

Thank you very much for your very clear explanations. One more question. Does Cal/mag really help the kids fall asleep. My son is now on Short acting Ritalin and it has been great for him, except he has difficulty falling asleep. He has been taking 1/2 a Periactin Pill (very benigh Antihistimine they use for cluster headaches, motion sickness and to increase appetite amongst other things) and it has helped with his sleep issues. I am considering giving Cal/mag or Melatonin instead.

Ohmama told me to look for Magnesium Chloride, but all I can find locally here is Magnesium Oxide, is there a big difference in the two? OK, I lied, I had two questions ;D

thanks again.

[catatonic]

I personally haven't seen any evidence that cal/mag has any impact on sleep, and it hasn't been my experience that it does either. However, others swear by it as sleep promoting. It won't hurt to try it, but whether it helps with sleep or not, I don't know. You might try a warm Epsom salts bath (Epsom salts are also a magnesium compound). I put my boy in an Epsom salts bath when he's hyper and it's definitely calming...but that could be hot water, time alone in a quiet room, or the magnesium.

Magnesium chloride and magnesium oxide are simply two different compounds of magnesium salts. There are a half dozen or so of these compounds, and all are readily utilized by your body, with the exception of magnesium oxide. Buy any type of magnesium that appeals to you as long as it's NOT magnesium oxide.

Magnesium chloride has the advantage of being quite readily bio-available...that is, your body will be able to use it easily. It has the disadvantage of having less magnesium per tablet. A 500mg tablet of magnesium chloride typically contains only 60mg of elemental magnesium.

Magnesium oxide has a far higher elemental magnesium content...more like 300mg per 500mg tablet. On the other hand, it has the lowest bio-availability of any of the magnesium compounds. It's virtually insoluble in water and close to useless as a supplement.

Magnesium citrate is another compound with excellent bio-availability (the best rate of all the compounds, in fact). It's often found in chewables. It has the drawback of causing loose bowels more frequently than the other types. In a study comparing how readily magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide were absorbed by the body, one study found that about 65% of the magnesium in magnesium citrate was utilized. The absorption rate for magnesium oxide was 0%. Yes, that's ZERO.

Magnesium lactate and magnesium aspartate are comparable to the chloride and citrate compounds in terms of bioavailability and elemental magnesium content.

You can find these results summarized in the following study:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11794633&dopt=Abstract

If you can only find magnesium oxide locally, try an internet or a catalog order. Some good websites selling supplements are:
www.herbal advisor.com (best prices, slow shipping)
www.iherb.com (higher prices, excellent shipping)
store.yahoo.com/hono/index.html (wide variety of products)

[Mayleng]

Thanks Catatonic, You are amazing

[HooDunnit]

Isn't that true!! What a wonderful member!!

[Mayleng]

Catatonic, can I pick your brain again. Someone asked me to check on Lecithin. Can you checkout this link and give me your opinion of it? Thanks

www.diannecraft.com/memory1.html

[catatonic]

Mayleng - lecithin is GREAT STUFF ;D I started a new thread to answer your question in greater detail...

[Mayleng]

catatonic said:

Mayleng - lecithin is GREAT STUFF ;D I started a new thread to answer your question in greater detail...

Thanks very much, I will look forward to it.