Carnitine?

[sierra]

Anybody tried acetyl-carnitine or l-carnitine? I heard this amino acid helps some ADHDers.

There seems to be some dispute about whether acetyl-carnitine or l-carnitine is the right form though. Studies with both forms have been done, but not necessarily the peer reviewed double blinds we'd all like to see when trying to decide what's real and what's memorex.

Sounds kind of dicy to make work for kids. Twice a day on an empty stomach. I wonder how long the stomach needs to stay empty after they take it. My sprouts are real grazers. On weekends they're slow to breakfast but on schooldays they're eating within 10 minutes of eyes open.

[catatonic]

If you look at the science on carnitine, and the metabolic function it serves, theoretically it OUGHT to help with ADHD. It plays an important role in the transport of essential fatty acids. Both forms, the l-carnitine and the acetyl-carnitine, have shown mixed results in treating ADHD.

Some results from double-blind studies have found that 3g of carnitine daily relieve symptoms of depression. (Internation Journal of Pharmacological Research 1990)

Pediatric doses used in various research studies ranged from 50mg twice daily up to a maximum of 4g...however, the recommendation I received from a nutritionist as well as the maker was a 500mg capsule twice daily.

Our experience with acetyl-carnitine was that it pretty much did nothing. No negative effects, but no discernible positive ones either. Having done more reading on the subject since then, if we try carnitine again, it will be the l-carnitine form, which seems to show more promise in the ADHD arena. We have not tried it yet, but hopefully someone else has had personal experience with it. (OhMama, don't you use this?)

For anyone considering carnitine in any form, keep in mind that if you also use anti-seizure meds like Depakote and Dilantin, you'll need to increase the amount of carnitine you use. If you have low thyroid problems, you do NOT want to use carnitine. Carnitine reduces thyroid hormone activity by blocking its activity in cells so can be a useful treatment for an overactive thyroid but harmful to those with low or borderline thyroid levels. (See "Carnitine is a naturally occurring inhibitor of thyroid hormone nuclear uptake" in Thyroid, 2000)

As for taking carnitine on an empty stomach...normally that means 1/2 hour before eating or 1 hour after eating. Pain in the you-know-what. I wonder how critical the empty stomach thing is, because I know it wouldn't work to well for us!

[sierra]

That recommendation of 500 mg twice a day. Was it related to the child's size, weight or age?

I got a couple of tall skinny sprouts. Bean Sprout especially. He's 15 and I mostly go with adult doses with him. But he disappears when he turns sideways. 5'9" and 120 lbs. He gained over 5 lbs since September but danged if I see where he put it.

[catatonic]

I think that's the "generic" dose recommendation. It's what I was given for my adolescent son at 5'10" and 140lb (which really is pretty much adult size). For my 9-year-old, dose was 350mg twice a day (he's 85 pounds).

[ohmama]

Cat,
Yes, I am using the Carnitine for fatty acid transportation and more. With all that I've read about it I consider it to be VERY important and I think it is making a difference. If taken alone I'm not sure it would be effective but in the big picture of everything else we are doing it is helping everything to work better. If you have the book "EXCITOTOXINS The Taste That Kills" by Dr.Russell Blaylock there is some good information on pages 237 & 238 about L-Carnitine and Acetyl L-Carnitine you won't want to miss.

Sierra, If you don't have this book I would say to check it out at your library or take a trip to Barnes and Nobel. You will soon see this is a book that needs to be read a few times and then kept for future reference.

I have included this in our treatment plan for the fatty acids but also find it important because "fire boy" is taking Depakote. I see you already know this. Good work on the research Cat!!!

It is not always possible to take on an empty stomach so I just give it with the other supplements. What's a mom to do? I take it myself and can see a difference in how I feel. I give it a big thumbs up.

[lllex]

In the Harvard study that showed supplements to be as effective as Ritalin, 30 mg of L-carnitine was included in the supplements.

This study was just completed in December of 2003 and is very interesting. Here's a link to the complete research paper (it's in PDF).

www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/8/3/319.pdf

If you're interested in what supplements and amounts were used, it's in 2 tables on 2 separate pages - table 1a and 1b.

Sure wish some vitamin place would put a package together that included all these supplements so we wouldn't have to piece it all together.

[ohmama]

lllex,
I come up with a blank screen on this site. Is there another address for it?

[catatonic]

Try this link for the full text article:
www.alternativementalhealth.com/articleindex.htm
Then select the "ADD Study: Nutrients Perform As Well As Drugs" link at the top of the list.

OhMama, I looked at the Excitotoxins info and interpret it as follows:

Acetyl-l-carnitine can increase GABA concentrations and glutathione levels, protect the brain from degenerative effects of aging, and is much better absorbed by neurons than the l-carntine.

L-Carnitine improves long-term memory and learning, improves cellular energy production, and reduces glutamate toxicity.

I couldn't find any research references for the claim that l-carnitine improves memory or learning so am not certain how much weight to give that claim. Virtually all of the research I dug up dealt with acetyl-l-carnitine, often in conjunction with lecithin, since both act to increase the neurotransmitter choline.

I did locate one Dutch study that examined the effects of carnitine on ADHD symptoms and concluded that it helps significantly with attention and aggression problems ( www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12213433&dopt=Abstract )

Unfortunately, it is not specified which type of carnitine this study used, but because the post-treatment phase measured blood plasma concentrations of acetyl-carnitine, I tend to believe that's what the subjects were given.

Soooooo, I still have no clue which variety of carnitine would be the best recommendation for ADHD symptoms. Trial and error again, I suppose. I get a little tired of trial and error!!!

[Kimmers]

"Virtually all of the research I dug up dealt with acetyl-l-carnitine, often in conjunction with lecithin, since both act to increase the neurotransmitter choline."

Cat-
Does this mean that if you are giving Lecithin, you should also include this for a more thorough effect? Also, did I read that you need to include B-vitamins when giving amino acids in order for them to work? I began giving my son the B-complex again when we added the tyrosine and so far so good. I just wanted to make sure what B-vitamin is important for this and also how much is needed.

Thanks!
Kimmers

[sierra]

Well around here it's a lot easier to find the L-carnitine so we'll try that first. I give the sprouts EFAs and a balanced B50. I've been hearing how it's better to give P-5-P than B6. And to either give it sublingual or enteric coated. Since there's a snowball's chance they'd keep the sublingual under their tongue I'm thinking enteric.

We've had a supplement program going for years but really haven't seen any measurable improvements. I'm crossing my fingers that with some tweaks to revvvv up the absorption we might see better results.

[ohmama]

Cat,
Thanks for that alternative mental health site. Tons of information there.

Like lllex said, it would be nice if someone put it all together so we wouldn't have to piece it a little at a time to figure out the best treatment plan. The problems are too individual/specific to lump it that way though. Oh no, now I've thought of another service that is sooo needed. Just think of it... a job as a researcher to put something together for treatment options based on individual symptoms in a diagnosis. Someone to put it all together for you! I would be willing to pay for that service myself.

[lllex]

Just think of it... a job as a researcher to put something together for treatment options based on individual symptoms in a diagnosis. Someone to put it all together for you!

From what I've been reading on these boards, I'd say you and Catanonic would be qualified for this job! How do I make an appointment with you?

[ohmama]

Why not?

1. What is the dx?
2. What are the symptoms?
3. Child or Adult?
4. Age and weight?
5. Current meds or natural alternatives being used at this time.
6. Is there a nutritional diet plan in effect now?

What are you using as far as fatty acids and vitamins/minerals? Please give total mg and specifics.

Include any other information you feel would help.

Hey Cat, I can't do this alone. Are you up to it?

[lllex]

Alright!
1. ADD - Inattentive
2. Can't focus/concentrate, chews on his shirt, there was bedwetting but that seems to be gone
3,4. Child - boy, age 8, 55 pounds
5. No meds, using play attention (home biofeedback unit) we have about 8 hours in so far, taking nutricia Efelex (4 in the morning, 4 evening) looks like that gives him 480 mg DHA and 96 GLA (he's been taking these for about 6 weeks), just started the Feingold diet on Saturday (and have already been foiled by a gum carrying uncle ), also just started a multivitamin with minerals. After reading these posts and the study, I realize that the multi that I bought doesn't have enough in it - DH can use the rest of it.
6. I'm trying to make sure he gets protein for breakfast.

I did the Cvots... test on him to see if he has a magnesium deficiency and I swear I saw a twitch. So I did it several more times just to check if I was hallucinating and still saw a twitch. So I forced his doctor to order blood tests (for magnesium, iron, calcium, copper, and zinc), and they all came in the normal range. Is it possible to have a mag deficiency that doesn't show on the blood test? Is is possible to do that test wrong and get a twitch without a deficiency?

I'm really quite lucky in that he doesn't have the behavior/hyper attributes of ADHD. But he has such focus problems that I was sure at the last teacher conference she was going to ask me to put him on meds. I was ready to cry, trying to try all the natural alternatives I could before being pressured into meds. Luckily I underestimated his teacher - she was wonderful and apparently is quite willing to go over things with him (and call him back from where ever he goes) as many times as is needed. He is learning and getting B's on his work, but someone needs to be right next to him to keep him on track and to see that he brings his homework home.

I also have a 6 year old girl that shows no AD/HD symptoms, and a 4 year old boy who talks non-stop.
More than you wanted to know I'm sure, but I wanted to introduce myself to the people on this board, cuz I plan on being here often.

Thanks for your help and dedication to this site.

[lllex]

I was thinking of buying the following vitamins/minerals:
Now- Special Two
Now - Lecithin granules
Natural Factors - RxOmega-3 Factors
Natural Factors - Evening Primrose Oil (500mg)
Source Naturals - Ultra Magnesium
Source Naturals - L-Tyrosine (500mg)

I would use the RxOmega-3 instead of the efalex.
Am I missing anything? Do I need an antioxidant too? Should I give him the adult dose of the Special Two?