Omega 3--looking for opinions

[lisle]

Foley:
I am confused. I just looked up the Omega Balance on Jarrow's site and it says it has 235 DHA and 45 EPA. I am surprised to hear you say your child takes 800 omegas? How many does your kid take? And how do they look and taste? My son hates the fish oil capsules from NOW. They don't have any taste to me but to him they do.
I only get 270 when I add that up. What's up?
Help! I don't know whether to get it.
lisle

[foley]

Lisle,
My DS takes two a day (one in the morning and one in the evening). The molecular distillation makes the Omega 3's more concentrated, so while it looks like low doses of DHA, EPA, and GLA, he's still getting an appropriate amount. BTW he's 12 like your DS

These are easy to swallow gelcaps and have no taste to them. My DS *hates* to swallow tablets, so our supplements are either gelcaps, or capsules.

(I went over to the site and it looks like they may have updated their Omega formula--I bought this bottle several weeks ago--because it's 500mg total for each gelcap on the site.)

HTH
Foley

[foley]

oops--
forgot to add there's 400mg in each of DS's gelcap.

f

[Kimmers]

foley:

You said that your son's ADHD presents itself as oppositional/defiant behavior...my son has been dx'ed with ODD in addition to his ADHD and I was wondering what else you give your son for supplements (if any) or if all you are using is the Omega 3 with the GLA included. Right now I am giving my son 720 EPA and 480 DHA fish oil capsules along with 200 mg. magnesium. He did great at first when I was giving him this along with a 100% B-complex, and a multi-vitamin. I discontinued everything about a month ago when he started to revert back to his good old oppositional self and added back the Omega 3 and magnesium. I discontinued the B to see if this was causing mystery reactions and I discontinued the multi. because it was full of artificial junk. So far nothing has been working like it had before. The Omega did, however, fix the eczema problems he had on his hands and face but nothing for behavior. I want to go ahead and order the Special Two multivitamin that I learned about from Cat as well as a few other things but if you were having good results with the Omega+GLA alone, I would try that first. My son HATES, HATES, HATES to take his pills. Which, by the way, was also very easy for him to do before when everything was going good! Strange coincidence maybe... Thanks for any suggestions!

Kimmers

[foley]

Hi Kimmers,

Here's what we do:

We follow the FG program which helped a lot and use Jarrow's Omega Balance with the critical GLA--without the GLA he goes back to presenting ODD--and we recently switched from a GNC Mega Teen vitamin, to a much more expensive, highly absorable, and more complete Multi Vitamin and Mineral supplement:

Pioneer Vegetarian (Iron-Free) 1 + Vitamin Mineral. Here's a link to the label contents--it's antioxidant rich, and includes organic trace minerals, green foods, as well as vegetable enzyme complex. It's available in capsule form which is much easier to swallow than those horse tablets.

www.pioneernutritional.com/products/allproduct_popups/VM1plus.html

And we've added Magnesium Glycinate--120mg twice a day, also in capsule form--to ease his anxiety. I'm pretty sure that his high anxiety level was making him irritable and snappish when it came to certain life tasks. I chose the Glycinate form because it's easy on the stomach and highly absorable so less capsules are needed to achieve improvement. The brand is pharmaceutical grade, and the company is called "Verified Quality Natural Products." My DS did not show magnesium defeciency (sp?) when I did the test, so we using it as a regular supplement.

Some xtra info:

When DS follows the FG program and takes the Omega Balance he does very, very well. Unfortunately he cheats on the FG program quite a bit, but we've found that switching his daily vitamin mineral supplement, and adding the Magnesium Glycinate has made him a much more personable and likable kid. (We are still strictly FG program in our home, but I can't control his ability to cheat when he's at school.)

He's actually nice to have around these days--this has been the case for several weeks now--we switched and added in the middle of December, so I'm confidant that it's the supplements and not just a few good days.

We've also gotten into the habit of pointing out that this is his true self, and when he does get slightly out of line we make sure he knows it's out of character. I wish I had done this all along, but we've rarely seen his 'true self' for such a long stretch, and when we did we weren't sure if it was for real or not--I'm so thankful that we have the opportunity to make the distinction to him now. :-)

HTH
Foley

[Kimmers]

This looks like a really good multi. and he would love the fact that it is capsule, he HATES any kind of tablet. He says they get stuck too easy and then that is when they taste bad! Where do you buy yours at and what kind of cost is it? Also, this is the product I was hoping to switch to for the fatty acids: (Please take a look and tell me what you think)

www.herbaladvisor.com/shop/xq/asp/ptid.35840/qx/productDetail.htm

I've wanted to get this for awhile now because I wanted to start giving him EPO but didn't want to add yet one MORE thing. I was hoping we'd get the same results back with the same old thing we were using before but it doesn't look like it is going to be coming back! Then all of a sudden you suggested the GLA and I noticed that these are all included in this capsule.

And about a month ago I decided I was going to sign up for the Feingold program but I still haven't gotten the $70 some dollars together because I had tonsil surgery and my husband had sinus surgery so we were both off of work and money has been tight...blah, blah (sorry to give you the life story) Anyway, these three things together have made the difference for you? My son is only 5 so I can definitely monitor him away from school and if I tell his teacher she can make sure he doesn't cheat in school.

I am just sick of fighting with him to take so many pills and if these things would make the difference it would really help alot for us. Also, what kinds of anxiety-related things did your son display? I am not sure what my sons issues are...sometimes I think it is some type of depression but then other times I really doubt that. Maybe you can shed some light on our problems!

Thanks so much!
Kimmers

[Kimmers]

This looks like a really good multi. and he would love the fact that it is capsule, he HATES any kind of tablet. He says they get stuck too easy and then that is when they taste bad! Where do you buy yours at and what kind of cost is it? Also, this is the product I was hoping to switch to for the fatty acids: (Please take a look and tell me what you think)

www.herbaladvisor.com/shop/xq/asp/ptid.35840/qx/productDetail.htm

I've wanted to get this for awhile now because I wanted to start giving him EPO but didn't want to add yet one MORE thing. I was hoping we'd get the same results back with the same old thing we were using before but it doesn't look like it is going to be coming back! Then all of a sudden you suggested the GLA and I noticed that these are all included in this capsule.

And about a month ago I decided I was going to sign up for the Feingold program but I still haven't gotten the $70 some dollars together because I had tonsil surgery and my husband had sinus surgery so we were both off of work and money has been tight...blah, blah (sorry to give you the life story) Anyway, these three things together have made the difference for you? My son is only 5 so I can definitely monitor him away from school and if I tell his teacher she can make sure he doesn't cheat in school.

I am just sick of fighting with him to take so many pills and if these things would make the difference it would really help alot for us. Also, what kinds of anxiety-related things did your son display? I am not sure what my sons issues are...sometimes I think it is some type of depression but then other times I really doubt that. Maybe you can shed some light on our problems!

Thanks so much!
Kimmers

[Kimmers]

Oops...sorry I posted this twice!

[foley]

Kimmers,
You are so lucky to have heard about the FG Program when he is five! I wish I had known about then. We didn't find it until DS was 9 and then it took another 1 1/2 years to get EX-H to comply with the program during his visitations.

You can contact FG and tell them you don't have the cash and they will work with you. It says so on their webpage.

We had 4 excellent months when DS was not cheating, EX-H was on the program, and the Omega Balance. Then he went to middle school and all the pressure to be 'like everyone else' at class parties etc. made him cave.

Although, since EX-H has been with the program & the Omega Balance, and a multi/mineral, there have been no more calls from the school, no melt-downs at school, no issues with keeping hands to self etc, no defying authorities at school. I think you have an excellent chance of finding (with a good multi/mineral, omega and feingold) great success.

I am a less is more person, it took me a long time, and a ton of research to add the magnesium. So I know exactly what you mean about all the pills etc. In fact the reason I switched multi/minerals was so that he would get exactly what he needed from one supplement rather than a handful of different ones. Even so he's currently taking 3 in the morning and 3 at night.

Now, because your son is 5, I would be careful about which multi you use.

In the ADD the Nutrition Solution she recommends 400mg of Omega 3 DHA divided (200mg in the morning, 200 in the evening.) for children. We roughly use her guidelines and if you check out this site you can get more specific dose recomendations for children:

www.borntoexplore.org/nutrition.htm

Now, going back to avoiding too many capsules, I buy my supplements at my local health food store, which is run by an extraordinarily knowledgeable woman.

To give credit where credit is due, she's been trying to get me to switch multi's for a couple of years--being a cynic I thought she was trying to make more money, but lo and behold when I called and asked for the specific things I needed in a multi, she pulled this one up and she made sure it complied with FG.

I checked out everything in that multi/mineral and was absolutely floored by the info I gained.

If you would like me to, I can call and ask her what she would recommend for someone like my DS who is in a five-year-old's body. Or you can run the same thing by your local Health Food Store and see what they recommend.

HTH
foley

[foley]

Kimmers,
You are so lucky to have heard about the FG Program when he is five! I wish I had known about then. We didn't find it until DS was 9 and then it took another 1 1/2 years to get EX-H to comply with the program during his visitations.

You can contact FG and tell them you don't have the cash and they will work with you. It says so on their webpage.

We had 4 excellent months when DS was not cheating, EX-H was on the program, and the Omega Balance. Then he went to middle school and all the pressure to be 'like everyone else' at class parties etc. made him cave.

Although, since EX-H has been with the program & the Omega Balance, and a multi/mineral, there have been no more calls from the school, no melt-downs at school, no issues with keeping hands to self etc, no defying authorities at school. I think you have an excellent chance of finding (with a good multi/mineral, omega and feingold) great success.

I am a less is more person, it took me a long time, and a ton of research to add the magnesium. So I know exactly what you mean about all the pills etc. In fact the reason I switched multi/minerals was so that he would get exactly what he needed from one supplement rather than a handful of different ones. Even so he's currently taking 3 in the morning and 3 at night.

Now, because your son is 5, I would be careful about which multi you use.

In the ADD the Nutrition Solution she recommends 400mg of Omega 3 DHA divided (200mg in the morning, 200 in the evening.) for children. We roughly use her guidelines and if you check out this site you can get more specific dose recomendations for children:

www.borntoexplore.org/nutrition.htm

Now, going back to avoiding too many capsules, I buy my supplements at my local health food store, which is run by an extraordinarily knowledgeable woman.

To give credit where credit is due, she's been trying to get me to switch multi's for a couple of years--being a cynic I thought she was trying to make more money, but lo and behold when I called and asked for the specific things I needed in a multi, she pulled this one up and she made sure it complied with FG.

I checked out everything in that multi/mineral and was absolutely floored by the info I gained.

If you would like me to, I can call and ask her what she would recommend for someone like my DS who is in a five-year-old's body. Or you can run the same thing by your local Health Food Store and see what they recommend.

HTH
foley

[foley]

"Also, what kinds of anxiety-related things did your son display? I am not sure what my sons issues are...sometimes I think it is some type of depression but then other times I really doubt that."


I forgot to address this in my previous post. DS seemed to have a general anxiety which peeked during the school year. He bites his nails to the quick, and would get extremely irritable when a project/report was due., or if he was having a conflict with another child. The onset of purberty and the self-consciousness
that came with it, made his anxiety worse.

After addressing impulse problems with FG, and the ODD with the Omega Balance, his anxiety became more apparent. At first I didn't consider anxiety such a bad thing--it can really motivate a person to apply themselves in school, etc.--but when I realized that it was making him snap out and causing him more problems at home I decided a little magnesium wouldn't hurt.

I'm glad that we did things in the order we did: FG, Omega, Multi/Mineral, Magnesium, and that we did it slowly, because I'm more confident regarding what works for each symptom rather than trying everything at once and wondering exactly what's what.

The good news about the omegas is that not only are they good for ADHD, but they're also highly recommended for depressive symptoms.

The supplement you showed me seems rather high when compared to Zimmerman's suggested dose for children, obviously I'm not a doctor or nutrionist so I'm can't really tell you if that's the right one for your DS, I can only share our experience.

Wow, this turned into a book!

HTH
Suzanne

[Kimmers]

Foley:

That would be wonderful if you could give that lady a call for me because it sounds like my son is a young version of yours! LOL I am hoping to give Feingold a call in the next few weeks when we get our tax refund back. I have been convinced for a long time that it would help him with his hyperactivity and impulsive issues. And if I can eliminate the ODD with one capsule I am absolutely sold on it because it is getting really really bad again. Fortunately he hasn't resorted to raging again but I fear that it might come back if we don't do something SOON! When you post again after you talk to her, could you give specific brand names for what she suggests? I hate to ask you to do too much but if you don't mind, it would help me out alot when trying to decide what to purchase...even for the magnesium. My son also wasn't deficient when we did the test either but I have kept giving it, hoping something will work. My son gets real fidgety when we're in public and starts acting wierd (making faces, wierd noises, dancing around, etc.) It's almost like he is very uncomfortable yet instead of making himself less visible he acts out and creates a huge scene. Also when he is having problems in school, such as with another kid, he gets real withdrawn and doesn't want to talk about it AT ALL. When things were really good, he would sit and tell me just about anything. So that is why I am having a hard time deciding what his issue is.

I am just baffled...how he could do SO well and then all of a sudden crash like he did. For us the ODD was almost non-existent and everything else was very, very manageable. Now we are right back to where we were 6 months ago. I hope this all helps us the way it has for you.

Thanks for ALL of your help!

Kimmers

[foley]

Kimmers,
Here's the scoop--

She recommends the Pioneer Nutrional's children's chewable--it taste like a sweet tart--it doesn't contain the green foods, and the enzymes because it's a chewable, but it's a high quality children's multi/mineral.

One of the Omega Balance's a day should be plenty for a five-year-old.

On the magnesium glycinate she explained that at 120 pounds and up you can do 700mg, when the child weighs less you work your way down for example : a child of 50 lbs would get plenty from one 120mg.

The other chewable multi/mineral she recommended is by Enzymatic Therapy-- Sea Buddies--it tastes better to some kids, but it's not as high in nutrients as the Pioneer chewable.

(She said it's tough to get kids that age to take their vitamins because often the B vitamins in the chewable have a medicinal taste to them.)

OK I hope this is helpful! :-)

Foley

[Kimmers]

Foley:

Yes, this helps ALOT-thanks! You didn't mention though what brand you are using for the magnesium...the one I have been giving him is mostly magnesium oxide, which from what I understand is a cheaper kind but still works. I just get it at the pharmacy here in my town but I also buy alot from GNC...are these things all available there as well? Otherwise I might look online also.

Regarding the Pioneer Chewables: are the green foods and the enzymes important for him to have or will he still get (hopefully) the same results without them?! He likes chewables for the most part but he often complains that they are sour. But they are still MUCH easier for me to get him to take than a tablet or capsule!

So from what you have told me, I should give this a try:

1-Pioneer chewable
1-magnesium glycinate
1-Omega balance

Given...when? Morning, suppertime, bedtime...

3 sounds much easier for me to get him to take rather than the 3 in the morning and the 3 at night he gets now! You mentioned in an earlier post that you introduced things in certain stages...do you recommend we try one at a time also? Just in case something works or doesn't work? Because if all he needs is say, Feingold and the Omega Balance, we won't be wasting money if he doesn't need anything else...


Thanks again SO much! Right now the ODD is the part that is really getting us and if these things have helped for you, I am crossing my fingers that they would help us also.


Kimmers

[foley]

I'm so glad the chewables will work for you!

The enzymes help my son with his food sensitivities since he cheats on the program all the time, but in your case it probably won't be an issue because he's five and you can keep him on the program.

You might not need the magnesium glycinate, so you can hold off on that--the brand name is "Verified Quality Natural Products."

Do the FG, the multi, and the Omega, because for the Omega's to work best you need the multi/mineral.

Now, remember that it takes several weeks to see a difference on FG, in fact you may not even notice a difference until you try testing back some of the salicylates you remove in the detox period. Then again we started FG without the benefits of a multi/mineral or omega 3's so maybe you'll see results faster?!

I always gave my DS his supplements in the morning, before school hoping it would get his day off to a good start. (The omega balance should be taken at a mealtime.)

I'm crossing my fingers for you too! :-)

ps you should try removing all the natural salicylates from your DS's diet now, even before you get your membership materials. There's a list of them at ( http://www.feingold.org) And try to avoid artificial flavors, & colors while you're at it. From your description of your son's behavior it really sounds like a salicylate sensitivity is there as well. Good luck! And keep me posted :-)

Hugs,
Foley