Omega 3--looking for opinions

[AustinsMom]

OK all you nutritional experts (ohmama I think this is your specialty) I need an opinion on the lipid issue. My ds8 has taken essential fatty acids since last Sept. We have changed types twice, but now are on the Nordic Natural liquid, 1/2 tsp 2X a day.

As far as symptoms of lipid deficiency, the thirst and urination issues seem to be much better. I know I have mentioned his unusually dry hands before. I am not treating them with lotion or external things cause I am using them kind of as my barometer to see if there are changes. I am assuming that when his lipid status improves I would see changes here. Do you think that is a correct assumption?

After reading the Omega connection book, I am thinking of the possibility that he is not converting or utilizing some of the oils I am giving him. Do you think it would be helpful to increase the amount of EPA and DHA I am giving him, like to 1 tsp. 2X a day? I am interested both in do you think it would be helpful and also is there a possibility it could be harmful?

I am convinced this is an important component for Austin so would love to know what you all think about this.

[ohmama]

Austins mom,
If I remember correctly you are giving the Omega-3 Liquid that is 450mg EPA and 300mg DHA per 1/2 teaspoon? If giving this twice a day (1500mg total) it should be adequate. Or is it the other liquid called Ultimate Omega Liquid that is 875mg EPA and 625mg DHA? Just want to make sure I know the total you are giving now so I can advise correctly.

When you started giving the oil in Sept. what dose was it? Was it a pharmaceutical grade product?

You should be able to get an indication from his skin condition in that I would expect it to improve. Does he have dry scalp or dandruff? This also should improve some. Also, in his behavior. Watch for loose bowels to know if you are increasing the dose too rapidly.

There are blood tests you could get to determine what his omega 3 levels are but I have never found it necessary to do that. I have been able to tell the difference in behavior if I was giving enough or if it was not working. Everyone is a little different so there are no exact rules on amounts.

It is important to remember to increase your vitamin E and Vitamin C when you increase the omega 3 or are taking at least 1,000mg total daily. Vitamin C should be 250 - 500mg two to three times daily, Vitamin E 200 IU twice daily and always Vitamin B complex once daily. L Carnitine also helps with transport of these fatty acids so you may want to include this amino acid.

If you will get your "Omega-3 Connection " book out and look on page 16, Dr. Stoll explains the safety of using these oils even for the very young. On page 209 he gives information on dosage. These are adult dosages. For a child 8 yrs old you can reduce it by half depending on what you are addressing as he says..."If you are using the omega 3 for health, mood, or cognitive enhancement, 1 to 2 grams (1000 - 2000mg) daily of total omega 3 (EPA plus DHA) is probably adequate. If you are using them for mood elevation or stabilization, a higher amount is sometimes required...." and so on.

An 8 year old will usually require a higher DHA than EPA. This will change as they grow and he will need more EPA in another year or two.

Because of what I am trying to help my boy with (he was 9 yrs old at the time) the doctor prescribed up to 4,000mg per day. So you see it is very safe. Along with this the antioxidants are important. Omega 3 fatty acids may cause depletion of some of these.

You could increase your dose a little but remember it takes a while to work so you won't see immediate results. I would advise giving another 1/2 teaspoon daily and try to be patient.

[AustinsMom]

Yes, I am using the Omega 3 liquid. I am about halfway through the Omega book now, but I have never been patient I am definitely finishing it, but I have been concerned about not getting enough omegas for awhile. The other big symptom I see is very dry and brittle toenails with vertical white lines.

When we started, we were on Learning Factors. There was an improvement in behavior, but then we leveled out. We made a switch to Neuromin DHA and that was not as good as far as behavior. We switched to a Max EFA by Kal and that seemed to improve, about to the level of the Learning Factor product. Then after reading your info on the things to look for in EFA's, we switched to Nordic Naturals. We've been on this for about 2-3 weeks. Long enough to not be seeing any changes necessarily.

I was reading a part in the book where it talked about people who don't convert it well may need greater amounts. Since it sounds like more wouldn't hurt, it seemed like something to try. Even if we haven't always been on the best mix of EFA's, I would think we would be seeing more changes now, so am just looking to maximize results.

[ohmama]

Don't forget when you increase the omega dose to give those added vitamins and L Carnitine. I think since you are seeing that much of a skin/toenail problem you should increase the dose.

I remember reading something a while back about fingernails and toenails like this and it pointed to a vitamin/mineral deficiency?? but I can't remember exactly what. I will try to find something on it. This may ring a bell with Cat. She is the vitamin expert.

[AustinsMom]

Thanks for the info ohmama. I think I will up the EFA dose. The Vit. C and E I can bump up too. I am trying to wait for the Pfeiffer results before I change too much, so guess I'll hold on the amino acids for awhile. (Like I said, patience is not my strong suit though). They suggested an interim schedule of supplements while I am waiting and the EFA's and vitamins fit in with that. So do I need to dose the C's and E's twice a day rather than a single larger dose?

[ohmama]

Twice daily on the vitamin E (use the natural mixed tocopherols form) and 2 or 3 times a day on the vitamin C (water soluble) will work better.

[catatonic]

AustinsMom -
You're very perceptive to track health by watching fingernail condition. Often this is the first place a vitamin deficiency will show up. And you may have more going on here than simply the need to increase the amount of Omega-3 you're providing. The nail problems you talk about ring a couple of bells:

If the nails have white bands on them, this can signify a protein deficiency. Easy enough to remedy through diet and a protein powder supplement. Because of the estrogenic compounds in soy, you might want to use whey-derived protein, or alternate soy and whey, if you go the supplement route.

Several vitamin deficiencies can cause dry, brittle nails, including protein again, Vitamin A, calcium and iron. Are you using a multi-vitamin to provide these nutrients?

For those who have food allergies, nail problems are common and are probably caused by poor nutrient absorption -- of the fatty acids and amino acids in particular.

To help with this, if you're not giving any kind of B-vitamins, you want to consider doing this. Without biotin (one of the B-complex vitamins) your body can't process the fatty acids and proteins. Dryness (nail and skin) can be caused by a lack of Vitamin B12.

What supplements are you currently using along with the Nordic Natural liquid?

[AustinsMom]

Austin does have food allergies, which we've treated with EPD allergy tx since he was ~2. His allergy dr. put him on a good chewable multi at the time, Tiger Vytes, with good vitamins and chelated minerals. He has taken those religiously from age 2 to last Sept. when we switched to a good multi capsule. So we've had the basics covered since then. But on a test this summer, he has very low B vitamins, in spite of that, so I'm thinking things aren't getting absorbed (hence the trip to Pfeiffer.)

But just to complicate things, we were off supplements for 3 days before Pfeiffer for tests, then didn't resume the B-50 till a few days after our return. And after several days I realized his behavior was worse, and remembered your cautions about B vits. So I took a few days off, and he was better. So now I'm thinking he is not tolerating something in the Bvit. which he desparately needs. I think I will try the biotin and the B12 one at a time, since they may be more crucial and see how that goes.

I really hadn't meant to switch anything before we get our Ppfeiffer info, but then thought I would boost our omega's cause I think he is not absorbing what I give. The Omega connection book talked about giving high doses when absorption is a problem, so I want to check that out before we change anything else.

So for now we are on the multi from Pfeiffer without copper, magnesium, C, E, and omega's. Thanks to both of you for the good info and helping me muddle through this.

[lisle]

Hi,
Did the Pfeiffer dr. look at his nails? They told me that my son's looked inflamed and had lines on them from a zinc deficiency. If they have little white dots on them they say it's a zinc problem. Knowing Pfeiffer, I think that they will suggest zinc in the evening and B-6 in the morning. Is the vitamin they gave you "metabolic management"? That one they used to give out at the first visit when we went; it has the zinc and b-6 together, which is counterproductive and they will change it with your actual RX. They are just giving you a small dose of everything they may later try for you to see if there's any problem. Call them if so.

Pfeiffer told us to use 1 gram of the combined EPA and DHA. We are using Now's Max EPA. Actually, I am giving him a little more, 4 grams total, with 2 in the a.m. and 2 in the p.m. Since he tends to be constipated, like your son, it is good for him. Did you do the stool tests yet? Aren't they just a lot of fun? Yucky. They did work with me on this, to answer your q's from another post, but my son became very agitated on the things they told us to try. I feel as if I have a cabinet full of stuff I don't know whether to try again. My son gets more hyper on most things we try.

Oh, about the water, we have been using reverse osmosis water from those machines in the health food store. I feel it's less than ideal yet can't afford the ones you get installed at home. We only have a carbon filter at home that wouldn't get rid of the copper. We had our water tested but didn't really believe that it would be fine.

Right now we are using the cultures (Pro 5 from Pfeiffer's pharmacy)at bedtime to try to innoculate his gut with good bacteria. He doesn't have enough of it they told us. I am sure there is some kind of prob. with absorption since when we did the tests we found whole undissolved vits (no capsule)in his stool.

Since he is older now and more private and I haven't done the test in a while, I don't know if it's still happening. Anyway, I am sure they will find some things to help with absorption.
lisle

[Madison]

Hi,

My mother always says "The fingernails tell alot on the health of a person!" With your information I can now link up a few things with nails apperance! Thanks for the info! Sometimes it gets soooo hard to keep up with the vitamins! Does anybody else feel this way? It's like the more a person READS the more they see what's lacking the in the diet via vitamins and minerals and trying to get the correct ones! Well, that's my input for the day...lol take care...MADISON

[foley]

"After reading the Omega connection book, I am thinking of the possibility that he is not converting or utilizing some of the oils I am giving him."

Austins Mom,

Hi we had this problem with my DS.

Some kids, like mine, need GLA a refined Omega 6 fatty acid derived from Borage Oil or Primrose Oil to process the Omega 3's. We found this out the very hard way after switching formula's.

My DS takes Omega Balance by Jarrow Formula's. It's biologically active because it has GLA (borage oil). He originally started on this formula and it cleared up his skin peeling on his hands and feet, the excessive thirst, and helped him articulate his thoughts better, as well as, decreased defiant behavior.

When our Health Food Store ran out of this formula we switched to DHA Max, also by Jarrow Formula's, because we thought that all he needed was the DHA and EPA, big mistake, although it was a slow decline things eventually got very hairy around here over a period of a few months.

Well, lo and behold, when the Omega Balance was back in stock within 24 hours of taking his supplement he was a different person. Right back on track.

I suggest you try a formula that includes GLA--we will never ever switch again.

I highly recommend the Jarrow Formula's because they are moleculary distilled to remove all impurities (mercury, PCB, toxins etc.) and as a result of the distillation higher concentrated in Omegas.

HTH
Foley

[AustinsMom]

lisle, Thanks for the info. Yes, we have finished our stool samples, and YESSS that's not a fun thing to do We had a urine test - the Microbial OATS test, that I sent off today. My ds is 8--will soon be 9--and has ADHD and a LD. We are trying so hard to remediate the LD, but the opposition and argumentative interactions are interfering so much. So it is hard to wait on the Pfeiffer stuff. Are you using any meds or just alternatives?

foley, that is interesting about the GLA. When you would change, how long would it be before you would see a difference?

I appreciate all the responses.

[lisle]

Hi, Austin's Mom:
Hang in there. I know--I am always anxious to learn of the program after all the kid has to go through with the blood work. We didn't do the OATS test but there wasn't anything in the comprehensive stool analysis the first time around. Just the lack of beneficial bacteria. With the stool test you get a consult on the phone with a nutritionist. It can be helpful if you keep it focused.
No, we aren't on any meds. We tried them for years and everything we tried either made my son worse or had serious side effects. That's why I went to Pfeiffer to begin with. Did you ever read the site called Safe Harbor? Dr. Walsh from Pfeiffer is involved with it. Sometimes I don't trust it completely (specifically the case studies) but there is a lot of info on it that's fascinating. I know the Pfeiffer program is being challenged now, too, because of puberty. My son is 12.
Still, it's never worked for attention. Anything they tried involved serotonin and it made him more hyper.
Well, I am thinking about the Evening Prim oil or borage oil, but I steered away from it because the EP oil can lower the seizure threshold. Dr. Stoll didn't use it. Do you know anyone who uses Stoll's formula: omegabrite?
I was going to try it but Pfeiffer thought not because it has so much EPA in it.

Foley: I am going to check out the Jarrow formula nevertheless, as maybe that's our answer. I like their products a lot. All high quality fish oils tend to be mollecularly distilled, as is vit. E. Yes, absolutely that's important for us because my son holds on to metals.

lisle

[foley]

"foley, that is interesting about the GLA. When you would change, how long would it be before you would see a difference? "

Austin's Mom,

It took several weeks to notice a big change, I would describe it as a slow and steady decline. It only took 24 hours to see a change after introducing the original formula. That's how I figured out the need for GLA.

He was getting 1000 mg of Omega 3's with the DHA Max, but wasn't utilizing them. With Omega Balance he gets 800mg of Omega 3's and 50mg of GLA. I can't believe the difference the 50mg of GLA makes, it definitely is key in managing his oppositional/defiant behaviors, which is how his ADHD presents itself.

There are quite of few studies out there that have found that GLA is often needed when a omega fatty acid deficiency is found--esp. for treating ADHD.

Here are few excerpts for you:

"You might want to start by having your blood tested for fatty acids. Check with a nutritionist. Some people have an inability to refine certain fatty acids, and might have a severe shortage of GLA, a refined omega-6 fatty acid, even if they eat tons of omega-6 fatty acids. Or they may be unable to refine omega-3 fatty acids. With a blood test you'll know right away whether you have a serious problem or not (they actually measure the percentage of fatty acids in your blood). Or you can just try a supplement...for a few months and see if there are any changes."

---Born to Explore, Correcting a Fatty Acid Imbalance

And here's another take on GLA:


"Gamma-linolenic acid (GLA) is an essential fatty acid (EFA) in the omega-6 family that is found primarily in plant-based oils. EFAs are essential to human health but cannot be made in the body. For this reason, they must be obtained from food. EFAs are needed for normal brain function, growth and development, bone health, stimulation of skin and hair growth, regulation of metabolism, and maintenance of reproductive processes.

Linoleic acid (LA), another omega-6 fatty acid, is found in cooking oils and processed foods and converted to GLA in the body. GLA is then broken down to arachidonic acid (AA) and/or another substance called dihomogamma-liolenic acid (DGLA). AA can also be consumed directly from meat, and GLA is available directly from evening primrose oil (EPO), black currant seed oil, and borage oil. Most of these oils also contain some linoleic acid.

The average North American diet provides more than 10 times the necessary amount of linoleic acid and tends to have too much omega-6 fatty acids compared to omega-3 fatty acids, another important class of EFAs. In fact, for optimum health, the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids should be between 1:1 and 4:1. The typical North American and Israeli diets are usually in the range of 11:1 to 30:1. This imbalance contributes to the development of long-term diseases such as heart disease, cancer, asthma, arthritis, and depression as well as, possibly, increased risk of infection.

Interestingly, not all omega-6 fatty acids behave the same. Linoleic acid (not to be confused with alpha-linolenic acid, which is in the omega-3 family) and arachidonic acid (AA) tend to be unhealthy because they promote inflammation, thereby increasing the risk of the diseases mentioned when consumed in excess. In contrast, GLA may actually reduce inflammation.

Much of the GLA taken from the oils mentioned or as a supplement is not converted to AA, but rather to DGLA. DGLA competes with AA and prevents the negative inflammatory effects that AA would otherwise cause in the body. Having adequate amounts of certain nutrients in the body (including magnesium, zinc, and vitamins C, B3, and B6) helps to promote the conversion of GLA to DGLA rather than AA.


Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)
Research to date has suggested an improvement in symptoms and behaviors related to ADHD from omega-3 fatty acids. Results of studies supplying omega-6 fatty acids in the form of GLA from EPO or other sources to children with ADHD, however, have been mixed and, therefore, not conclusive. More research on GLA for ADHD is needed before conclusions can be drawn. In the meantime, ensuring a healthier balance of omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids in the diet seems worthwhile for those with this behavioral condition.

--Health and Age.com (GLA)



Ultimately though, I can only share our experience, and hope that it helps someone else out there. GLA is definitely key in our treatment of DS's ADHD.

We also use a high quality multivitamin/mineral supplement from Pioneer Naturals and have recently added a Magnesium Glycinate supplement to help with anxiety.

Lisle! You may want to look into Magnesium Glycinate as well--in my research I found that it helps the body rid itself of Mercury.

HTH
Foley

[catatonic]

In her book "The LCP Solution" Jacqueline Stordy recommends using essential fatty acid supplements that contain DHA, EPA, AA and GLA. Research on essential fatty acids has shown that if you leave out any of these, the success rate declines. In tests with DHA/EPA and GLA together, success rates have been surprisingly high. At the 6-week point, 26% of children showed improvement...but by 20 week, that number had grown to 89%. So it's not fast but it is effective, particularly if you make sure to provide all the necessary fatty acids. (Laura Stevens' book "12 Effective Ways to Help Your ADD/ADHD Child" contains similar recommendations.)

We hit all the relevant fatty acids by using a fish oil supplement along with a separate Evening Primrose Oil capsule. It's a 500mg squishy capsule that contains 45mg GLA. We also use a 100IU Vitamin E capsule, with both the morning and evening doses.

Whether you use a combined supplement like the Jarrow or separate ones, you do want to always provide 3 things:
1.) Omega-3 for DHA and EPA
2.) GLA (evening primrose or borage)
3.) Vitamin E as an antioxidant and to enhance cell membrane permeability to the fatty acids (minimum of 100IU per day, preferably 100IU with morning and evening fish oil capsules).