VENT

[foley]

My DS is a different person when he takes his supplements and sticks to the Feingold program. He's a good kid who I enjoy spending time with. So what's the problem? He refuses to stick to Feingold program and cheats every chance he gets. He was awesome over christmas break because he was unable to cheat. Now he's back at school, and already reacting. Same old Same old KWIM?

What am I going to do?! He'll be 13 in March, he's had a huge growth spurt, and is practically as big as me. When he's reacting I feel like our whole family is being held hostage.

I'm at the end of my rope. I've talked to him, bribed him, and nothing works. He ate an entire bowl of clementines (evil) at his grandmother's about two weeks ago. An entire bowl! Why is he being so self destructive.

What am I going to do?

Foley

[rosyred45]

Well, I just wrote a bunch of stuff, then thought about his age. My boy is only 6, so I can't very well relate from a mother's point of view, but from working with some of the kids I have, I'll try to think from that view point.

#1 if he can get away with something he will. It's a teenage thing.
#2 They aren't neccessarily doing somethings deviously until after it is done. Doesn't make much sense, but in their eyes, there is nothing wrong with what they are doing at the time, so they don't stop. Mind you I said thier eyes. They are testing the waters of being independant.
#3. I whole heartedly believe in natural learning and the consequenses that follow. You don't wear a coat on a cold day, you get cold. Get your hand to close to the burner and not pay attention, you get burned. Just like a baby, you can talk until you are blue in the face and they will stil try to put everything in their mouth, grab everything they can. Why, curiosity. They want to know NOW.
#4 You are not the keeper of the animal, you are a sculptor of the clay. How you react to his spinning is the way that the clay will take shape. If you are too rough in one spot, there will be a hollow void.....if you just let it sit on the spinner, it will just sit there doing nothing except going around in circles waiting for you to help it. If you give him the love on all sides as you bring it up carefully, not perfect, but with patience and care, you will see the clay is working with you because you have added love, paitence, understanding,..
You can always add more "clay": hope, understanding, love joy, but as long as you aren't in such a hurry to just get it to the kiln, you can help him as much as he helps you.

OK, that just took a big breath outta me, sorry if it sounds weird, but as I was typing it, it made sense. I''ll have to remember that .

Kaiti

[ohmama]

Kaiti,
That was so beautiful. It brought tears to my eyes. Thank you, it is just what I needed to hear.

[rosyred45]

Funny thing is, as I was writing it, it just flowed out. I had to reread it to see what I wrote. I guess it's that's impulsive thing.

The more I thought about it, the more I started to realize in my own eyes what I need to change about myself and my actions, attitude, disipline, everything.

I have a tough time relating to teenagers because, yes, I am 29, but I sometimes get so caught up in things, I'm worse than they are. But when thinking about it, that's all they really want.
Love: to know that they do have it for them and fom them.
Guidance: they aren't baby's anymore.

They have to realize that if you play with fire sometimes you're gonna get burned. We can't keep being the sprinkler system over head. Everytime there might be a chance of smoke, it might not be an actual emergency to bring down the entire being and you might do more damage to the whole system if you douse everything.

We could be more of the stand-by extinguisher. It's always there, just in case you need to use it. Yes, I realize some extiguishers want legs, but for the kids to learn lessons of life, you can't put a damper on all of the work that has broken through so far.

Jeez these metaphors or whatever are popping out like crazy today, ok, one more: if you make a wrong turn when going out, do you head home to start all over again? Or do you figure out where you might have gone wrong in the first place. Or if you are like my laid back family, wander around taking in the sites, not making too big of a deal because you know eventually you will get back on the right path.

It might not work for everybody, but we try to be as comfortable as possible no matter where we are. It makes everyone around you more comfortable too!!

Thanks for the compliment
Have a good day
Kaiti

[ohmama]

Quick, get some paper and pen and spend the day writing. This stuff is great!

[foley]

Kaiti,
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I also am a big believer in natural consequences and we use them all the time. Unfortunately, by the time a reaction comes around DS could care less about natural consequences.

I thought your extended clay metaphor was quite creative, and it brought tears to my eyes too. In the abstract it's what every mother should aspire to with each child. And perhaps that's what triggers my stress on this issue--my worries for the rest of my family. I am worried about my marriage, my younger son who does not have ADHD, and the child I'm expecting, not just my target child.

I can only liken it to living with an alcoholic, or a drug addict since that's what it feels like. I have been working with my target DS since he was kicked out of his first daycare at the age of two.

In the past ten years we've had IEP meetings, testing, med trials, a hospitalization, had the school system under investigation by the State Board of Ed., removed him from public school, quit my job--not that I was there much anyway since I was *always* at his school, intensive social skills training, weaned him off meds, found the Feingold Program by sheer dumb luck, started omega fatty acids, a quality multi/mineral, and magnesium, watched him grow into this wonderful outstanding boy that any mother would be proud of, and have regularly watched him throw all his own hard work down the drain by compulsively eating off the program. As a mother with a fierce love for her son and the pure raw potential he has--it devastates me. Truly.

Thanks,
Foley

[rosyred45]

ohhhhhh myyyyyyyy,
your hitting home with the alchol. For the past year I have tried and tried. and as I am writing now, I am crying. I am that boat. Every time I think I'm doing good, boom another wall and hit rock bottom.

I think that's one of the reason's I like to post here. I feel more helpful here than sometimes at home.

Please know that even though your son's head says yes, his heart says no to the destruction.

Kaiti

[foley]

Kaiti --now I'm really crying--thanks so much, we all need support now and then, thank goodness for the boards.

Foley

[catatonic]

Foley, I think we're living in parallel universes here. My boy cheats on his diet as well and the entire family is held hostage to his reactions. I sometimes have to fight this angry, resentful feeling that tells me it's not fair that the entire family should have to suffer like this. My children range in age from 14 to just-turned-3-on-Sunday, with Challenge Boy being one of the middle ones, and there is no doubt that his behavior impacts the entire family.

When he is sticking to the diet (and I must admit that this is most of the time), he is a lovely child. When he cheats, he turns into a monster and the more monstrous he gets the less he cares about the diet or his behavior or consequences or anything else. It's a terrible cycle and several times when we've been caught in it, I've found myself on the edge of despair thinking Ritalin sounded like a d*mn good idea. (Luckily I always come to my senses in time!)

I agree with the natural consequences concept and use it in most situations. However, the natural consequences of a horrible food reaction affect the rest of the family a lot more than they do Challenge Boy. He runs amok and doesn't seem to care, while the rest of us suffer greatly. It's a disruptive influence and has been very destructive, in particular, to the relationship between my poor little problem child and his 14-year-old brother.

It's a very serious problem and very damaging to family dynamics. It's also incredibly difficult to solve. I've gotten to the point where I have practically zero tolerance for reactions that are caused by intentionally cheating on the diet. (Accidental ones, I feel differently about.) I segregate him from the rest of the family until his behavior begins to improve, which can mean an entire day of repeated trips to time-out. I take away his priveleges until the reaction is over (for example, no college football game while reacting to stolen fudge). This seems to have the overall effect of making him more determined to lie about what he's eaten.

The older they get, the more they have to self-regulate, and I think it's very difficult when faced with all the horrible food out there, advertised all over the place, their friends are eating it. Having trouble controlling their impulses to begin with...well, it sure doesn't help, does it?

Kaiti is so right about shaping the clay with love, hope, understanding and joy, and I'm glad she reminded all of us. It's very hard to keep those things in mind, and in action, when faced with an entire family thrown into an uproar by an out-of-control child who is only out-of-control because of his own poor choices. Very, very hard. It's frightening, too, because you can't help but wonder what other bad choices they'll make down the road when the consequences of those choices become far more dangerous.

This precise issue is one that my boy's psychologist will make a priority to address with him when his regular sessions begin later this month. I'm hoping that greater awareness of the way his behavior affects those around him will help the self-control.

I've also found it helps to allow him occasional junk food (like Kettle Chips or a Blue Sky Cola) even if a special trip to the health food store is required. He feels less deprived that way and is generally much better about sticking to the program when he gets these treats.

I don't think there is a good answer. Certainly not an easy one. The whole cycle is stressful in the extreme. Wish I could help, but I can't other than to say...I understand.

[rosyred45]

Because my husband and I are so much alike and think so much alike----scary thought there---- he has come to the point of agreeing with me that we can't have certain things in the house. (we snuck gummie worms the other day when the kids weren't looking, shhhhhh)

It has been really hard at school the past month or so. New people are in the cafeteria and they don't know what Mikey can and can't have. They don't remember that I already told them he only packs lunch and if needs be buys only WHITE milk. One lady yesterday told me I should have a talk with him about buying chocolate milk then. EXCUSE ME>>>>>He's in First grade. I can't complain too much she did tell me he was buying snacks instead of milk.....what the heck is he buying snacks for. supposed to be on his list that he can't buy anything unless other wise specified by me.

Sorry about that vent there, just po'ed about that one.

I also buy the occasional junk food. Actually, at our house, if it is prepackaged, it's considered junk, just because it costs so darn much. I usually have a baking day, so I make a few batches of cookies and a couple cakes so that he has something to take with him in his lunch or to munch on around here. I have found that Walmart brand milk chocolate chips have offered us the best, um, show of non-disruption. I know chocolate, but VANILLA, all the major brands that I have come across have vanillin.....eweeeeee

OK, I'll step down
Kaiti

[foley]

Cat,
I can't even begin to tell you how much it means to me that someone else understands. And I have to admit that this thought "It's frightening, too, because you can't help but wonder what other bad choices they'll make down the road when the consequences of those choices become far more dangerous. " has kept me awake at night many, many times.

I used to go out of my way to buy special approved junk (expensive too!) and what happened was he was eating tons of approved junk, and tons of unapproved junk--LOL I gotta laugh, or I'll start to cry!--and gained quite a bit of weight--so the pediatrician made us cut all junk.

I think I did stumble on something the other night, I told him that I 'wasn't having it' at the first sign of him reacting, I also told him he wasn't acting like himself so it was obvious that he cheated at school. (Like your ds he lies about it all the time.) My epiphany was that I will now always refer to him (when he's not in reaction) as his true self. I have no idea why I never thought of this before.

I also was so quick to shut down on him, this time, rather than trying to have patience, that it stunned him. I told him I would take back all of his xmas presents, and cancel his ski club--an event he's been really looking foward too--and he could see that I meant it--if he didn't stop right NOW. And guess what? He stopped. Maybe I was just lucky and the build up wasn't that bad yet, but I'm so relieved. This really can wear a person out, as you well know.

I can't thank you enough for responding.

Hugs,
Foley

[rosyred45]

What you are saying about the true self thing:

Ever since mine were little , I have always told them that I want so and so back, at first they would look at me like: duh, we are here. Then I would ask them who they were? Of course they would say their name. I would then tell them if they are going to act like someone else other than who I raised, they weren't coming home with me. ( of course I could never do that, illegal) But now, at the first sign of an act up, whether it be from something eaten, enviornment, sleepiness...whatever. they know to knock off whatever they are doing.

Off to work I go
Kaiti

[babytay]

Well I havent been reading alot of posts lately but these were really uplifting. I have been down lately. I am having problems with a 14 yr old and my 8yr old both boys. I love this place it lets you know that you arent alone. Keep up the good work guys this stuff is good.