Tyrosine...does it work?

[catatonic]

Has anyone tried tyrosine for ADHD? I've been doing some readng on this one lately and it seems to hold a lot of promise. So much promise, in fact, that I began my boy on it this Friday. I got started on the subject because of the "6 Types of ADHD" checklist at www.brainplace.com and for the most common type, what we'd think of as "classic ADHD" tyrosine is one of the treatments recommended by Dr. Amen. (His first recommendation is stimulant medication, which I ignored.)

Tyrosine is the amino acid required for the synthesis of the neurotransmitter dopamine.

Mediating the brain's dopamine action is also the mechanism of stimulant medications like Ritalin, as this NIH drug monograph explains:
"methylphenidate amplifies the release of dopamine, a neurotransmitter, thereby improving attention and focus in individuals who have dopamine signals that are weak, such as individuals with ADHD."

There is growing research evidence that there may be a physiological/genetic basis for some ADHD and in this very recent study done with mice, researchers damaged the dopamine receptors of mice and created mouse-ADHD as measured by "juvenile hyperactivity and impaired behavioral inhibition". (you can read an abstract of the study here www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14699433&dopt=Abstract )

There's more evidence from Neuroscience Biobehavioral Review's November issue, a study of hyper rats that concluded:
"Our results show that tyrosine hydroxylase and dopamine transporter gene expression are significantly and transiently reduced in the SHR midbrain."
(note...SHR=spontaneously hypertensive rat)

And yes, there's evidence from actual humans as well that dopamine systems are not functioning correctly in ADHD:
"There is evidence that abnormalities within the dopamine system in the brain play a major role in the pathophysiology of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). For instance, dopaminergic psychostimulants, the drugs of first choice in ADHD, interact directly with the dopamine transporter (DAT). "
(Neueroscience Behavioral Review, November)

So wouldn't increasing dopamine by natural means...as in providing the amino acid used to build dopamine...have a high likelihood of success?

We tried using the amino acid DMAE, which ought to help increase the brain's level of serotonin by stimulating greater production of choline. Our results were at best inconclusive...as in, I'm not sure if the DMAE did nothing, or made things a little worse. So, if influencing the seratonin pathway was not successful, we'll try the dopamine cycle instead.

Any thoughts?

PS -- forgot to add...Vitamin B6, Folic Acid and copper are required in order to metabolize the tyrosine into dopamine. A B-complex and a multi ought to cover that.

[HooDunnit]

Hi catatonic. I studied this a year or two ago for the same reasons that you mention. I had noticed Dr. Amen's recommendation, and thought that giving tyrosine might be an option worth considering. After reading on the internet for quite a while and looking for studies that concluded that tyrosine administration could be helpful in children with ADHD, I came to the conclusion that ADHD is not a result of tyrosine insufficiency. Perhaps there have now been some new developments. I would like to know more about it. I realize that many children with ADHD are believed to have problems with their dopamine levels.

Barry

[ohmama]

Cat,
Because tyrosine does affect dopamine it would be worth pursuing.

It is not that a tyrosine deficiency is present but rather that this amino acid would be used as a medication to inhance the dopamine. Tyrosine converts to dopamine in the brain and body. Using the amino acids is like using a natural substance for an unatural reason... as a medication.

Obviously drugs do not create neurotransmitters -- they only use those already available in the brain. That is the advantage with using amino acids. Anyone who is serious about adhd symptoms will eventually find this amino acid evidence and hopefully one that will help. I give it a thumbs up.

[AustinsMom]

Wish I could be of help, but I'm at the front end of this amino acid issue. We just started DMAE, so are giving it time to work. Too bad things aren't a little faster. Seems like it's sometimes hard to tell what is doing what. Hopefully if we hit on the right thing it will be obvious. Good luck; love to hear what you are doing and how it is working.

[HooDunnit]

RE "It is not that a tyrosine deficiency is present but rather that this amino acid would be used as a medication to inhance the dopamine. Tyrosine converts to dopamine in the brain and body. Using the amino acids is like using a natural substance for an unatural reason... as a medication."

I'm not sure that you can do that. You can try, of course. But I think that the body uses substrates as needed.

Barry

[catatonic]

Logically, it ought to be possible to increase the brain's dopamine levels by providing building blocks like tyrosine. And therefore, it ought to be possible to see the same kind of results with amino acids as are achieved with medication, which simply prevent the reuptake of neurotransmitters as opposed to synthesizing new ones from amino acid precursors.

In reality, it doesn't seem to be this simple. Why is the brain dopamine deficient to begin with? Perhaps because the body has difficulty synthesizing neurotransmitters from amino acids. Perhaps because of some other metabolic quirk or deficiency. Hard to say. But it certainly doesn't seem to be as straightforward as it ought to be!!!

Ideally, we want our bodies to produce what we need for good health by providing the appropriate nutrients. This is as true of neurological health as it is of strictly physiological indicators. If everything in the body functioned just as it is "supposed" to, it would be so much simpler!!! But our bodies are as individual as our personalities. Look at drug side-effects, for example. Why do some people have no trouble at all with a medication that turns another person psychotic or gives them ulcers? Inexplicable and frustrating.

You're right, Barry, that the body uses substrates as needed. Assuming it correctly perceives that need. Assuming it is capable of the complex metabolic process required by perception of that need. Assuming it has all of the other cofactors required by that metabolic process. That's why we live in a giant science fair project around here...one that I'd really like to finish at some point before I die!

[HooDunnit]

Hi catatonic. Have you tried a martial art with your son's attentional difficulties? My ADHD-son was very distractible at age ten and it took him about two years in Hapkido before he began to change. It could be that he just "grew out of" some of his ADHD symptoms, but it seems that the exercise and (I will capitalize this) the REPETITIVE nature of the exercises that a student undergoes in a martial training, were of benefit in the development of his ability to focus. Fortunately, I had him out of school in those years and so he could take all the time he needed to do Hapkido on a daily basis. He didn't have scut homework to do. He wouldn't have been able to do any homework in the evenings anyway -- no concentration.

RE "Why is the brain dopamine deficient to begin with? Perhaps because the body has difficulty synthesizing neurotransmitters from amino acids."

If a car's engine were not going fast enough, one of the possibilities would be there was not enough gasoline being supplied to it. So if you supply more gas to it, its engine speed will increase. However, the engine may not be going fast enough for some other reason. Perhaps some part of the engine that it relies on to function properly just isn't there or is there only intermittently. In the case of ADHD, it might be the developmental delay in some enzyme or receptor site. It might be different things in different types of ADHD. I don't think that they know that yet.

Barry

[ohmama]

I think the answer can be chalked up to imperfection, something we are all stuck with. Will we ever find out? Not in this life time.

It may be that the balance of dopamine and serotonin is out of wack. I know that as you increase dopamine the serotonin levels decrease. Let's not forget about all the other brain chemicals and how they affect one another. It's a real balancing act. Even the scientists can't figure it out. It's too individual because we are all so unique. I'm just trying to get close enough to see a difference. If you find anything wonderful please share it with us. We are in this together.

[catatonic]

Well, the jury is still out on tyrosine.

My impression so far is that it doesn't have the same kind of impact on oppositional behavior or temper outbursts that we saw with Feingold and supplements. No change in that department, but that's okay because he handles himself pretty well at home most of the time and the tantrums and quarelling are a much smaller issue than they once were (in those dreadful days I call "before").

It appears that he is finding it a little easier to pay attention in school. I don't want to get my hopes up yet, since it is still much to early to know for certain, but I am praying that we will have FINALLY found something to help with the attentiveness. And that the effects will last!!! Anyway, so far so good. At least he isn't having a negative reaction, so I haven't made anything worse, thank heaven!

[HooDunnit]

Here is a book that I found helpful, especially chapter three, "The neurochemistry of optimal stimulation". There is quite a bit of discussion of dopamine and the human brain.

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0942679261/qid=1073756969/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-3341784-1817700?v=glance&s=books

Barry

[catatonic]

Barry, looks like an interesting book! I know my boy does better with plenty of exercise, and not the type that involves sitting on a team bench followed by standing around on a field with maybe 5 minutes of actual sweating mixed in. I mean honest to goodness hard work where he rollerblades on ramps repeatedly for a couple of hours or rides his bike several miles or helps load an entire stack of firewood into the truck. The calm lasts for quite some time!

OhMama, the whole balancing act thing scares me. It makes me very reluctant to manipulate individual amino acids. In fact, a friend who's a nutritionist has advised me against doing so on several occasions. I tried, instead, a general protein powder supplement she recommended with an ample and balanced amino acid profile. I certainly think it helps overall to give this at breakfast, but it really doesn't do much for the big symptoms. We're going to give this tyrosine a full 6-weeks while continuing the balanced protein supplement and see what happens, but I have to admit the whole process makes me a little nervous.

[ohmama]

Cat,
I know, it scares me too. I would like to find some professional that is capable and could guide me with it. One thing I have noticed is that it does not seem to be causing any harm. Meds on the other hand really scare me. I am becoming more relaxed though the more I read on the amino acids and how to use them. Have you read anything by Dr. Billie Jay Sahley? She is an expert on amino acids and has written several books. She doesn't see patients anymore as she is devoted to research, writing books and lectures. The good ones always seem to end up doing this.

What choice is there? I can't just do nothing. That would be too painful. I will be starting a different med soon. Probably Depakote or Risperdal. I can't see any good with the one we are using now (Trileptal).

[catatonic]

I haven't read her books yet, though I've visited her website numerous times. I plan to in the near future, once I've plowed my way through the results of my recent book spending spree. "Over Dose" by Dr. Jay Cohen is well worth reading, particularly if you are contemplating use of medications. It would give you a great deal of information to use in formulating questions you might want to ask your doctor. It is not in any sense anti-medication, but discusses in great detail the way pharmaceutical marketing drives a system that allows far to many medication side effects that could easily be avoided. I don't know if you have ever looked at the Harvard ADHD forum, but you might want to read the thread on Risperdol there:
neuro-mancer.mgh.harvard.edu/ubb/Forum7/HTML/004451.html

Depakote is currently recruiting subjects for a study on pediatric bipolar, in both Los Angeles and Davis. There's a link here:
www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00067262?order=11

[ohmama]

I just posted in our medication section under the topic "Risperdal" about what a jerk my sons doctor is. Also looked over the risperdal.com site I was referred to and decided that's not for us. I see some of the horror stories on that Harvard forum echo my fears. It keeps driving me back to the amino acids for answers. Depakote doesn't look any better either. I'm not willing to accept those side effects. I'm also not willing to let things be the way they are. My boy needs help. I need to get to sleep. Talk with you tomorrow.

[susanthemom]

Ohmama,
I wouldn't worry too much about not using Risperdol. I've been noticing a recurring ad on our local TV stations for a class action suit involving Risperdol, Seroquel, Clozi..something, and a couple of othe names that I recognize from this site but can't name off hand right now. Anyway, it's seeking people who've become diabetic since using these particular meds. I normally wouldn't mention something like this except that I only recognized the names at all from people discussing them here. However, I'd probably also speculate that there are class action suits against many other meds we'd probably consider perfectly harmless these days. I really don't want to set off any panic buttons for anybody.