Natural Stims?

[AustinsMom]

In another thread ohmama referred to some natural stims that she plans to try when appropriate, and I was curious if anyone has tried any natural stims and what the results were. I have found that ds does well off of meds in most situations, but there are those obligatory occasions that are a recipe for disaster--weddings, school programs, or generally any nonstructured setting that is high stimulation. I am interested in exploring a natural stim that could be used on rare occasions to help him be more successful.

I have a friend who recommended a product by Nature's Sunshine called Nature's Chi. The ingredients are Ma Huang, Eleuthero Root, Dong Quai Root, Ho Shou Wu Root, and Astrgalus; but the ephedra connection of ma huang makes me wary of this product. Anyone had any success or have any thoughts on this issue?

[ohmama]

Austins mom,
What I had in mind was the amino acid L-tyrosine to increase dopamine levels. This is on the list of prefrontal cortex treatments from the Amen Clinic. Along with this was biofeedback to increase PFC activity, intense aerobic exercise, stimulating activities and a higher protein diet.

The other options were Adderall, Dexedrine, Ritalin/Concerta, etc. I thought the tyrosine would be a better choice. I was cautioned not to start on this till the temporal lobe problem was under control as would be the case with bipolar disorder. Any kind of stim will make this worse. Not just the official prescription med but the tyrosine also. There is more info on the Amen site www.brainplace.com He goes into the natural treatments as well as the meds.

I think I would stay away from anything with Ma Huang in it for the reason you stated. I'm not up on those other herbs so can't comment on the whole combination. I know that Dong Quai is used for hot flashes and often causes a strong burning sensation in the stomach.

I hope others will comment on this topic.

[Madison]

Hi,

don't know if this is what your talking about but we do use the Omega's and vitamins, etc. They REALLY do help!! I've realized too my child CAN'T have candy!! We had the chocolate red and green M&M's and that is disaster!! Her hyperness stems MAINLY from what she EATS!! Take a good look at what food your child comsumes via sweets or candy or cake. If your going to a party or a long trip DON'T feed anything sweet to your child. Their behavior is so much better for doing this. It's so hard to control stuff like that but it's worth the effort. If she's at a event that I'm not pressent at then I don't worry about what she eats otherwise if I have to deal with the hyperness she DOESN'T have anything sweet. I've MADE alot of my own candy and it's effects her the SAME!! She's as hyper on homemade fudge and divinity as if I would buy M&M's or anything else store bought. The Omega's REALLY help with settling her down to do homework, etc. I don't see us ever going without them. We DON'T do meds!! So it's mainly diet control and vitamins. Take care...Madison

[AustinsMom]

Thanks for the replies! Ohmama, I have read Amens book, but not checked the website out lately, so will look at that. Madison--yes, I agree that food is a major issue. We used to use meds, then started the supplements--omega 3, vits, minerals, then stopped meds, then started Feingold. So things are much much better except for the occasions I mentioned. I had hoped to find something to give him a leg up for these, but maybe we just have to tough it out at these times and be thankful when they are over:-)

[catatonic]

Hey OhMama, we're going to try the tyrosine as well, so we'll have to compare notes. Depending on how things go with the tyrosine, we may look at taurine next. It seems the amino acids most likely to have a beneficial effect are the GABA, DMAE, tyrosine and taurine. DMAE seems to do pretty much nothing for my boy, even a slight negative effect, despite all the promising research on its benefits. I guess so much depends on the precise nature of the brain's chemical imbalance that you have to plan on some trial and error.

Reading on tyrosine indicates it is probably the most likely to be the most useful in the most common type of ADHD. Based on the Amen Clinic's checklist, my boy is a classic case of "Combined" type ADHD, the kind that responds best to stimulants. And, therefore, by my logic, to the dopaminergic and cholinergic amino acids. I am -- as ever -- hopeful. What is your understanding of how long it may take to see detectable results with the tyrosine?

If you've tried the biofeedback yet, I want to hear about it!!! This is something I have been actively investigating lately, but am handicapped by long drive to facility and insurance company's unwillingness to pay anything for it. What's your experience been, if you've gotten that far yet???

Austinsmom, we are hoping that psychological counseling, to start on a twice-monthly schedule in about a week here, will help with the kinds of situations you mention...appropriate social behavior and impulse control issues. But you know, our ADHD kids are certainly NOT the only ones who go ape at weddings, school programs, etc. Get a bunch of kids together in a place where they don't know the rules and aren't being real well supervised since all the grown-ups are yakking, throw in a bunch of sugary punch and junky nibble food, and the " Dog pack" effect where they regress to a more primitive type of group behavior... My son may be ONE of the wildest in that kind of situation, but he is never THE wildest, and it's a truly rare child who EVER manages to actually behave well the entire time!

You may have tried this already, but it really helps my son if I set out some SPECIFIC rules ahead of time. As in...you may not run, jump, yell or play tag anywhere in the building. You have to go outside, but you are ONLY allowed outside in the courtyard, not behind the building or in the far parking lot. That kind of thing. Then we will often set out a "reward" if he manages to stick with the rules and not embarrass me too totally with his insane wild-animal behavior (a dollar, a Baskin-Robbins cone, a movie, etc) and a penalty if he screws up (rake leaves the next day, not watch a movie, etc.) This helps with the major infractions. The minor ones are most easily handled with a bottle of wine... as in I drink it and pretend I don't notice what's going on.

(don't know what happened, but that should say " Dog pack" up there...not hog pack or eggnog pack or big-red-x-og pack, either)

it's still supposed to say d - o - g pack!!!

[AustinsMom]

Thanks for the advice catatonic. My nephew gets married today, which is what prompted my question. We have to be there 1.5 hrs early for family pictures and it is that time that worries me. We have come up with some strategies, but there's only so much you can do in a small town for an hour (especially since outside activities need to be kept somewhat tame if you expect the shirt and tie to stay unripped and somewhat clean). I think his tolerance may be shot about the time the reception starts so I'm thinking we won't stay long at that:-)

We started DMAE about 10 days ago, and the last few days I have thought his behavior was better; not sure if it could be that so soon or if we arejust in a good place. With school still being out and our routine not in place it's hard to tell what is up...is he sleeping later, not as stressed be school, etc. So guess I'll see when next week rolls around. Would I be seeing DMAE effects this early?

[HooDunnit]

RE "we will often set out a "reward" if he manages to stick with the rules and not embarrass me too totally with his insane wild-animal behavior (a dollar, a Baskin-Robbins cone, a movie, etc) and a penalty if he screws up (rake leaves the next day, not watch a movie, etc.) This helps with the major infractions. The minor ones are most easily handled with a bottle of wine... as in I drink it and pretend I don't notice what's going on."

What I have found, catatonic, is that now that my ADHD-son is 17 and taller than me, that HE is embarassed by ME and my behavior when we go places. I'll be in WalMart singing a Bing Crosby song and chatting with the pretty salesgirls and he'll be saying, "Dad, don't be an ass!!" So the tables have turned. He can't drink wine yet. I wonder what else he can do?

Barry

[ohmama]

Cat,
I haven't given the tyrosine to "fire boy" yet as he is still too unstable. I think we are doing better though. Yesterday he was the perfect child. Then I screwed it up by giving him the wrong dose of his med (trileptal). I was susposed to give 1 tab in the morning and 2 tabs in the PM. Well, I gave him 2 tabs this morning instead of 1 and it has been the day from hell. I won't make that mistake again. We will be back on schedual tomorrow. It seems his twin had a bad day too so that didn't help. A real rollercoaster ride.

I gave the tyrosine to twin boy who is "inattentive ADD" but I think there is more going on with him that hasn't been diagnosed yet. It made him very hyper. VERY HYPER. I am concerned he is also "ring of fire" by this reaction, among other things. I was using 500mg per day and gave it for two days, then everything went nuts. Now I'm giving L-Theanine to him and it seems to have a calming effect.

I think you will see results with using tyrosine within a few days. I would suggest using the pharmaceutical grade. It's not expensive and you know you will be getting the real thing and not a bunch of chalk fillers. The Pain and Stress Clinic in San Antonio, Tx has this for $15 (100 caps). 1-800-669-2256 or www.painstresscenter.com This is where I get all my amino acids and B Complex, etc. because of the quality.

There is an amino acid called Carnosine I have been reading about. It is a dipeptide that may enhance function in the frontal lobe area of the brain. There is a doctor Michael Chez who conducted research on this with austism and found a 90% success rate working with 1,000 children. He states that responses to carnosine supplementation are usually seen in 1 to 8 weeks. In some children the improvements have been described as dramatic. The dose was 400mg carnosine, 50 IU of vitamin E, and 5mg of zinc two times a day. I may look into this more.

I haven't done the biofeedback but would love to. From reading Dr. Amen's books I can see it would be beneficial. He has extensive knowledge on this and recommends it highly. I'll get you to read his books yet, won't I?

I have often thought of that bottle of wine and I love Barry's idea's. We have to keep our sense of humor. I refuse to let them take that away from me. Sometimes I think that's all I have left.