Omega 3, Calc/Mag/Zinc and Stomach Aches

[swmom]

Hi -

I had been giving my child(who is also on Strattera) Omega 3 and a Calcium/Mag/Zinc supplement. She complained of stomach aches almost immediately and it didn't seem to go away with time. So, I stopped. Any thoughts on why this happened? Any way to get around this or is this a temporary side effect? I did notice that the calcium/mag/zinc supplement also contained glutamic acid, which I believe is msg. Could this have caused the tummy aches?

Thanks for any help. I want to continue to supplement - especially to address anxiety and to help my child sleep better - but not if it is going to make her feel sick to her stomach.

Any thoughts?

[Kimmers]

When I first introduced my son to the supplements, (he is on Omega 3's, Magnesium, B vitamins and a multi-vitamin) he as well complained about stomach aches and had the diarrhea alot. How old is your child and what do they weigh? I found out that I was giving him way too much magnesium for his weight (5 years, 45 lbs.) Cat pointed out "Milk of Magnesium" to me which IS magnesium and so I cut back his dose from 400 mg. to only 200 mgs. and the problem went away. I have also heard that Omega 3 can cause loose bowels at first but you also said it didn't go away with time...I had posted on ADHD.com this exact question quite awhile ago, maybe like in September. If there is still access to those boards you could maybe try and look that one up. Hope this helps!

Kimmers

[1Madison]

It's VERY important that they DRINK a FULL glass of water to desolve these vitamins and get the FULL effect of them. I'm still having a problem with mine drinking enough water!! They will have a upset stomach if they bypass the water! maybe go with a reward system like 'if you drink ALL your water you'll get a nickle and they ADD UP!"

TAKE CARE.....MADISON

[AustinsMom]

My son doesn't tolerate zinc very well--hasn't ever since he was a young child. He tolerated chelated zinc better. You might try taking out the zinc to see if this is the culprit, then you could find a different version of zinc if so. Good luck!

[catatonic]

Odds are, the problem is with the magnesium, as it can be hard on sensitive tummies. You don't mention what type of magnesium you are using (i.e. magnesium oxide, magnesium taurate, etc.) Some forms are much harder on the stomach than others, and in my experience, the chewables almost universally cause pain and/or loose bowels. Magnesium oxide is usually easiest on the stomach but most poorly utilized. The magnesium taurate is far more bio-available but also harder on the stomach. I have problems with the magnesium citrate (stomach cramps), but have no idea whether that's a common reaction or not.

Stomach aches are also about the most common side effect of meds (along with loss of appetite).

Your target dose of magnesium is 6mg per pound of body weight. For example, that's 300mg for a 50 pound child. You can start small and work up as the body adjusts. I wouldn't abandon magnesium altogether, though. It's far too important to each and every one of the brain's chemical processes (not to mention its cardiovascular benefits).

[swmom]

Thanks for all the replies. Those are great suggestions.

Kimmers, my child is 9 and weighs 63 lbs. What would be the correct amount of omega 3 and the calcium, magnesium and zinc for her? Any thoughts? She is also taking 40 mg. of Strattera each day.

[catatonic]

SWMom

If you child eats a pretty well-balanced diet, you can probably skip the calcium completely.

Exact magnesium dose would be 378mg, which is ridiculous to try to achieve, so I'd use a 400mg supplement if I were you. (The Ultra-Mag by Source Naturals comes in a 400mg tablet and is not expensive. It also contains magnesium in a variety of forms for better bio-availability, and doesn't seem to have any effect on the tummy at all)

Very little zinc is needed. Generally, a multi-vitamin with trace minerals has enough, and it's usually in the neighborhood of 15mg or less.

For Omega-3, you need to provide at least 480mg of DHA per day, split into a morning and an evening dose. Some people like the smaller, more concentrated capsules like DHA-250, where you only need one in the morning and one at night. These typically provide your DHA with very little "extras", as in the EPA per capsule is low. We use a larger, less refined supplement and my son takes 2 in the a.m. and 2 in the p.m. Along with his 480mg DHA, he also gets 720mg EPA. He seems to need this, because he does poorly on the refined supplements. It's trial and error. If you see some results on the Omega-3, but not enough, you can always increase the dose. You can't overdose on it.

Make sure that you provide Vitamin E along with your Omega-3. A small capsule of 100 IU is good. Your body requires the Vitamin E to metabolize the Omega-3, and reserves will be quickly depleted if you do not supplement. If you select your multi-vitamin carefully, you may find it will include all the vitamin E you need, as well as the trace minerals. That way you may be able to avoid using tons of different pills.

[Kimmers]

Cat is right about the correct dosage of magnesium. I found out with trial and error that it was the magnesium that was causing him the problems. Through the test that Cat has suggested many times, I came to the conclusion that my son wasn't deficient in magnesium but I have kept him on it because of the many benefits it has in treating ADHD symptoms, just at a lower dose than what is ideal for his body weight. Unfortunately I no longer have access to the exact wording Cat has used in describing the test but it just basically involves tapping your finger in the hollow of the cheek. If the upper lip twitches, a megnesium deficiency is almost always suspected. What I have done is purchased the magnesium as a separate supplement (I am almost positive it is Magnesium Oxide that is swallowed, not chewed) but the suggested dose is 4 tablets @100 mgs. each=400 mgs. total. This allowed me to cut the dosage back to 100 mgs. at a time. So he is now taking 100 mgs. twice a day=200 mgs. Cat has pointed out that the magnesium oxide is the most poorly utilized but I use it because 1. he is not really deficient but can still utilize what he DOES get and 2. I like that I can separate the dosages out into 100 mgs. each. So maybe you could try finding a supplement that divides the dosages out into 100 mgs. each but in a better utilized form that Cat suggested earlier. And as always, you could always look into the side effects of the Stratterra as a culprit, as Cat suggested. But did I understand that the tummy aches went away after stopping the supplements? Hope some of this helps!

Kimmers

[swmom]

Thanks, you guys. Cat and Kimmers - are your kids on supplements only or do you combine sups with meds?
If you only use these supplements, what sorts of results do you see from them?

[catatonic]

Kimmers -
Good strategy with the magnesium! The 100mg tablets are an excellent idea.

By the way, there is nothing inherently wrong with magnesium oxide. It's cheap, it's easiest on the stomach, and it will generally work just fine. Unfortunately, my son's magnesium deficiency appears particularly stubborn. All the other boys now show no reaction to the test, but my little darling still twitches. I've got him up to 650mg a day and still no luck. I may bump him to 800mg for a week to see if that helps, unless he starts having tummy trouble. Luckily, he appears to possess a cast-iron gut like mine.

Are you having good results overall with your supplements?

[Kimmers]

swmom-

We have never tried meds. with our son. He was dx'ed just this past spring and to be honest, we were given the choice on whether or not we wanted to try them. I am not anti-meds but we decided to try the natural route before anything else. If it came down to it, yes I would probably cave and give in to the meds. AFTER the supplements were no longer doing any good. So far, so good. I will be honest and say that yes, meds. are a much easier route to go, they don't involve the time and attention that supplements do but the side effects and overall long term effects of stimulants scare me. I have a high rate of various addictions that run in my family and I think that was enough to scare me away from them. Currently my son is using the following things:

* 2 fish oil capsules daily that equal 480mg DHA and 720mg EPA (I am considering bumping him up to three capsules)

* 2 magnesium tablets that equal 200 mgs. magnesium daily

* 1 B-vitamin tablet given daily that contains 100% daily b-vitamin intake

* 1 multi-vitamin containing trace minerals (unfortunately I have been giving him Bugs Bunny vitamins which was all I could find containing all of the trace minerals but a BIG no-no to the Feingold program with all of the artificial colors and flavors)

I still need to check and make sure he is getting enough vitamin E in his multi-vitamin otherwise I will be adding that to the mix and I am considering adding DMAE as well.

Since we are talking honestly, when we started the supplements it took about 4 weeks before we saw improvements, about 6-8 weeks before we saw drastic improvements.

My son used to be a hostile, violent, disrespectful, annoying, whiny, temper-tantrum throwing little boy. In addition to that, he would ignore you, carry on about a 30 sec. conversation before turning bored and interrupting or tuning you out. His room was CONSTANTLY a disaster and the whole house contained trails of his forgotten activites and moods turned bad. It was extremely exhausting and stressful, to the point I was prescribed Zoloft (an anti-depressant) for chronic fatigue and what they call "situational depression" most undoubtedly caused from my son's condition.

Since the supplements have began to take effect, everything I have mentioned above has been virtually eliminted. Not entirely, but ALMOST. He is pleasant to be around most of the time, he can sit and talk with you, he says please and thank you (the first time I heard him say, no thank-you I thought I was going to faint!) He seems to enjoy school more-he has even found a group of kids to play with at recess-YIPPEE!! He still has outbursts and things that get to him and I think that is a combination of him just acting his age and also because we have not implemented the Feingold diet. WHY?? I have no idea yet, I haven't figured out yet why I haven't joined after all of the good things I keep hearing about it. I am working on that though and trying to make it a priority to put that into place soon. And as far as behavior, we are still having a few roadblocks but I really honestly think that would dissipate with the Feingold program. The temper tantrums and behavior issues are so random now that they are so much more easier to deal with. Not like the everyday occurances they used to be. I honestly FORGET how he used to act (how is that possible??) until someone new to the board posts about their struggles and I think, Oh, that's right, I do remember that!! I just don't see myself turning to the meds. any time in the future. Things might change but I think that would be caused by a change in myself.

Well sorry for rambling, hope some of this helps (and take notes on the things Cat says, she is VERY knowledgeable!)

Kimmers

[swmom]

Thanks for sharing that, Kimmers. Sometimes, I kind of wish we had done what you did, the supplements first. Now. we're on Strattera and it's made a huge difference with the inattention and the hyperactivity, not as much with the impulsivity. But we're still seeing lots of moody stuff, whining, anxiety. So, I'm interested in trying the supplements to see if that might be the missing link. What concerns me a little is combining the sups with the Strattera. Lilly says they haven't tested Strattera with any supplements yet. Pharmacist and neurologist have said go ahead.

I'm sure another med would address some of that but I really don't want to add another one. One is scary enough, especially since it hasn't been tested on any child longer than a year.

[catatonic]

Like Kimmers, we've never used meds. We combine the Feingold diet with supplements and have found the results very good.

I give my son basically the same supplements as Kimmers does, except that I use more magnesium. The B-vitamin I use is a balanced B-50. I added 250mg of DMAE a couple of weeks ago and I believe I am seeing an improvement in attentiveness, but I'll wait a couple more weeks before making any definite conclusions. (DMAE can take as long as 6 months to reach its peak effectiveness.)

The Feingold Diet has a really major impact. Even if you don't want to go to the expense of joining the Feingold Association, you can try it on your own by eliminating artificial colors, artificial flavors, the preservatives BHA, BHT and TBHQ, and foods high in salicylates. (For more information, see the website at www.feingold.org )

There is no indication that any of these supplements - aside from the DMAE - will have any interaction whatsoever with any medications. I believe you can go ahead and give them with perfect confidence that they won't cause any problems. The DMAE I am not sure about. It's been researched for interactions with really bizarre and esoteric things like atropine and catecholamines, but nothing ADHD-specific.

However, if you look at the research, it is possible that the DMAE might be as effective alone as Strattera or the Ritalin type meds. It was, in fact, the treatment of choice for ADHD in the pre-Ritalin era. It is FAR safer, and in a recent double-blind test involving 74 hyperactive children, it proved every bit as successful as Ritalin.

So I really don't know what to tell you about DMAE and Strattera. Sorry, but I have no experience with the medications. I do know that diet and supplements combined work. Not without effort, though, and sometimes that effort can be a real pain in the ***. But it's worth it to see my son return to being a pleasant, enjoyable child (as opposed to a horrible little spazoid monster).

[Kimmers]

swmom-

Have you checked the insert from the Strattera and read up on the side effects? It seems to me that I have heard of meds. having these same types of side effects from people who posted on ADHD.com. If you could stay away from another med. I would say that would be a good choice. Trying something natural before another med. would always be something to try first. You might want to check on the medication board as well and see if you could ask someone about side effects of Stratterra. And don't get down on yourself about trying meds. first. If I had not found this board at the exact time that I did, my son would be on them too. I didn't even know other options were available.

Take care,

Kimmers

[catatonic]

I checked some more about DMAE interacting with medication and couldn't find any indication that it does. But again, there isn't really anything specific on that issue. There is a good overview of DMAE at www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,10023,00.html .