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Post by catatonic on Nov 5, 2003 7:28:27 GMT -5
This is truly terrifying to me. I read things like "My 5 year old was just diagnosed ADHD and started on Ritalin today..." It seems doctors and schools see no solution except to drug the living h*ll out of our children... and parents go along with it!!!!! In many (most?) cases, they aren't even aware there is anything else they can do.
This scares me. What about the poor child? If he has a nutritional deficiency or his mind is being scrambled by chemical food additives or he suffers undiagnosed allergies to the point where he simply cannot think...and our answer is "we don't care WHY you're this way, just take this pill so you don't annoy us" ...what does that say about our society? What does that say about parenting? About love?
This is not intended as an indictment of parents. I don't place the blame on parents for this terrible medication craze, but on doctors and educators who ought to know better and who ought to have the best interests of their patients or students at heart but obviously don't. They are ignorant and uncaring when they ought to be providing caring leadership.
I don't think medication is entirely evil. I simply think it makes sense - medically and humanistically - to reserve it as the LAST option. Not the first. Never the first.
How can we educate people who have no idea that effective options to medication even exist???
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Post by catseye on Nov 5, 2003 10:23:17 GMT -5
I do wish I had known there were alternatives BEFORE we took the medications recommended by dr, at schools "suggestion"...
We were afraid of sd becomming a "zombie", but we were at the point zombie would be ok to us!! Life was/is sometimes pure misery for our whole family because of sd's adhd symptoms... At the time we took the medication to find some peace for our family.. I know the old saying "whats best for the kids" but it is also best for the kids for the family to get along...
I think originally ADHD medication is presented as a cure, and it certainly is NOT a cure... It simply hides some of the most damaging symptoms.. I would like to attemp to change diet, but none of us are willing to change it so that I dont have to make differing meals... Lazy?? Maybe, but life is too hectic as it is without attempting to change our families diet ie cooking from scratch while working, school, activities, etc... The already made type meals allow us family time together, again maybe not what is best for the adhd child in our home, but appears to be what is best for our family...
I understand your reasoning about "the poor child", and it is heartbreaking... But this "poor child" also needs her second family to stay intact (one divorce already), loving etc.. That was not going to happen before the meds... I was resenting her, and ready to leave, I hated/hate going home somedays... Life is still not perfect (not that I had a gurantee or anything), but we are attempting to save our family, along with sd...
What baffles me is the fact this ADHD was never known, treated etc before yet suddenly ALOT of children have it... I am sure it was around back then, but it certainly wasnt medical necessity ... Education, parenting styles, even Dr's. have changed dramatically over the years, and sometimes change isnt for the better I guess...
cat
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Post by sierra on Nov 5, 2003 13:06:30 GMT -5
 What terrifies me is Bean Sprout trying to get through school without medication. He is so much more inattentive than I was at his age. And I was bad. I think a lot of teachers thought I was a lost cause. I'm afraid he'd be looking at hotel bellhop or busboy as a career with as little education as he can absorb without medication. I talk to a lot of people who think ADHD medications are overprescribed. There was a study in Maryland a few years ago that showed a white boy was twice as likely to be prescribed ADHD medications as an African-American or Latino boy. I think the difference was even greater between boys and girls although the population distribution of ADHD symptoms was about the same in all groups. Looks like expectations are just different in different populations. I agree the meds are probably overprescribed. That or we've done something to our environment and food supply in the last 30 years that is having terrible consequences on the development of a child's brain. I think people who are looking for ADHD help for a 4 or 5 year old either have a tornado on their hands or they have a desire for a quick fix. Li'l Sprout was a tornado at age 4-5. But ADHD didn't even enter my mind and I sure didn't ask the pediatrician about him. I figured it was personality and we were just going to have to work it out. Despite him being a tornado it was problems learning in school that finally drove us to look for answers.
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Post by catatonic on Nov 5, 2003 14:52:09 GMT -5
Catseye says she gave "medications recommended by doctor at school's suggestion." That's what scares me. It's also exactly what happened to me. Problem is, I was too pig-headed to go along with it. How many others have been pushed and urged and bullied by these supposed experts?
Teachers and counselors aren't medically trained. Unfortunately, in too many cases their sole concern seems to be classroom management. Doctors are so inculcated with pharmacology and bombarded by drug reps that they can't even see solutions that don't involve prescriptions.
Why don't they say "give your child these vitamins and remove these things from his diet and let's re-evaluate in 6 weeks"?
I don't doubt that there are plenty of parents out there whose sanity was literally saved by putting their child on medication. I came awfully darned close to reaching that point myself.
When it became obvious my son had a problem, I had to look and look and look and read and read and read to find the truth about stimulant medications and about alternatives to using them. It was time-consuming and an enormous pain in the you-know-what. Schools should order stacks of copies of Laura Stevens' book "12 Effective Ways to Help Your ADD/ADHD Child" and hand them out right along with the pro-drug pamphlets and videos "explaining" ADHD that they're provided by the drug companies.
I think what Madison said about not knowing about this condition until the doctor offers medication as a way to fix it is a really common experience. We're parents, not medical experts, and we have to put our trust in someone, whether it's our pediatrician or the school counselor. And as a group they've really let us down and our children as well.
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Post by adhdtimes4 on Nov 5, 2003 16:18:30 GMT -5
I have to say that we have never been encouraged to give medications by our teachers. They are very careful not to do that, and have been supportive no matter what we have tried. One of my son's teachers has a son with ADHD/PIT. They've gone the medication route, but are currently supplementing with Omega's and such.
Putting my son on meds was one of the hardest decision I've ever made, and it was a last resort. I can only imagine how difficult it would be if I felt pressure from the school.
Our one son who is on medication HAD to have help to function in the classroom. He's so bright, but geez, he absorbs nothing without help, and right now that help comes from Strattera. I'm petrified of the long term effects, but more petrified of the long term effects of him missing high school. And that is what we would be doing without the meds. He'd end up bellhopping with Sierra's Sprout. (Hopefully at a luxury resort with a generous family discount.)
We're praying that the supplementation we are doing will eventually make us be able to go that route exclusively.
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Post by RosieRobinRoss on Nov 6, 2003 9:38:15 GMT -5
I agree with you Catatonic, how can a parent take their child to the doctor have a chat and come away with a prescription for a narcotic and go and get it filled at the pharmacy and give it the child the same day. I would never take or even consider taking anything whether for myself or my children without doing some research. Where I live ritalin is a banned substance you cannot even buy it with or without a prescription. I am not totally against meds but I think they should be done as a last resort, this is not a sore throat that you take a pill and it goes away. I have a 20 year old ADD son that was raised without meds, he is a highschool grad, it was not easy but we got there.
Some of the problem is that we are raised to view Doctor's as gods and we do not question anything they tell us, this is totally wrong as we are only responsible for ourselves and our children. Then there are the drug companies and don't even get me started.... I see all the ads in North American magazines with the happy child kissing his Mother and they say it is because of Staterra, something must be wrong when the drug companies are allowed to do this kind of marketing of a narcotic. In this day and age people think there is amagic pill for everything it just is not so. Enough rant.
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Post by ~ free * spirit ~ on Nov 6, 2003 13:37:42 GMT -5
Catatonic -
I know how you feel. I am also terrified at the number of children, expecially young children, who are being put on these meds. They are related to cocaine and meth amphetamine but somehow the doctors have convinced everyone they are safe. Now doctors are medicating children as young as 2yrs old for ADHD. This is very scary, not to mention sad....
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Post by AnneM on Nov 6, 2003 14:04:18 GMT -5
Hi Catatonic ... I really think you have a good point here.... BUT just to give the "other" side of the coin .... and that is here in the UK .... it is honestly the opposite to that which you are describing. The teachers looked at me as if I had TWO heads when I mentioned that my son had been diagnosed with adhd (very little 'h') .... they (generally) do NOT believe in it and you can spend a lot of time trying to educate them!! When medication is mentioned there is a sort of "Well I don't believe in that either" attitude .... and it is seriously frustrating ... The ONLY person who really seems to take adhd seriously (from my end!) is my son's psychiatrist ....
So I think there are TWO sides to the coin here ... there is the OVER-diagnosis in the US and there is the UNDER-diagnosis here in the UK .... In the UK there is a general feeling that in the US this has become "way out of control" ... BUT in the UK it is just as detrimental because it simply ISN'T being recognised!! I could off the top of my head name at least 8 children I know (or have known over the years) who scream "ADHD" at me ... but they are totally undiagnosed and I doubt they ever, ever will be! Some of these people now have lives that are already "out of control" and I find it tragic that they haven't found the help they so badly need (whether this be meds, natural alternatives, behaviour mods etc.etc.) ... Just simply some "intervention" and "help" ...
So YES I really do take your point .... but there is a 'flip-side' as well ... and I honestly don't know which is the sadder !! Somewhere in the middle there should be a "happy medium" !!
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Post by finnmom on Nov 6, 2003 14:19:32 GMT -5
Hi Catatonic  Yes I can see your point. And I´am sayng this the same time we are considering start of med for my son. Here in Finland, like UK, it´s more under medicating and under diagnosing than otherwise. Like Anne said, there are many kid´s who fit the picture perfectly and noone has even thought to eval them for ADHD, although I can see that chansing in here now a days. I ám not pro-med or prodx, but I think it´s better to have some explanation for ds behaviour. Ritalin and Conserta are the only one´s in here, we are in the midle of eval. if we are going to try Ritalin or not, dont know yet, have to wait and see. It freek´s me out too, but then again, if it´ll help???  These are really tough decisions and it feels like what ever you do, it´s wrong somehow Marja |
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Post by Kimmers on Nov 6, 2003 14:40:05 GMT -5
When my son was dx'ed ADHD/ODD about 6 months ago, I sought help because he was on the border with one foot into "out of control." Literally. He was becoming increasingly violent, hitting, kicking, spitting and on and on, not to mention the verbal destruction he was bringing into our home. He was causing problems between his dad and me and without us even realizing it, we were fighting with eachother because of our frustrations with him. We knew there was something wrong with him that was out of our control.
So on to my point...when he was given the dx, the decision to give him meds. was placed in our hands. The child psych. that dx'ed him told us to give the bahavior mods. a try and come back to see her if we decided that meds. was the route we wanted to take. THANKFULLY she did this because when I went to that appointment that day, I was actually HOPING that she would prescribe meds. And you're right, I wanted a "quick fix." I didn't want to deal with his behavior anymore, I just wanted it gone and peace back into our home. All I have ever heard of was "give your ADHD child meds. to change him." I never even KNEW that there were other ways. The information is just not made public, plain and simple. Well it was after the appt. that I began reading about the Natural Alternatives and wow, what an eye opener for me. I don't ever see myself going with meds. I have said it before, I am not anti-meds, if it came right down to it I would do it, AFTER I had exhausted every single other option.
Someone mentioned that ADHD had never been a real problem back when and I totally agree that it is because our environment has changed and especially the way we prepare our meals. I believe that is the exact reason the Feingold Diet is so successful. Someone else mentioned that they haven't changed their diets due to the time it takes to prepare meals that are proper for an ADHD child. That is the exact reason I haven't done it yet myself. But it is true, times have changed...environment, society, packaging and manufacturing of food and food products, and right along with it, medical science as well.
Thankfully, my son's teacher isn't pushing for meds. I am not thrilled with the way his teacher is handling his disorder in the classroom but at least we are not bothered by her about giving meds. She has actually made it clear she would like to see his improvement come from other things rather than meds. I just hope we can continue with the same great results we have found with the supplements. We still need some "tweaking" but hopefully we will get there someday!
Kimmers
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Post by babytay on Nov 6, 2003 15:04:07 GMT -5
yes i am also scared to death about this medication situation. I will admit I am one of the parents that after hearing that my son was adhd for years I put him on meds with out checking in to the natural alternatives. One reason being I never knew about them before visiting this sight.
Adderall and concerta didnt work for me my son looked and acted unhealthy but he was being good in school. I decided to try something I read in ohmamas post. Gaba omega 3 and change of the diet. It is working very slow my son was part of the class when he was on concerta but he was on meds I dont want that anymore. Now this morning i see his desk is not with the class anymore I dont want to go back to meds. Does anyone know what I can do. He is taking Gaba, Omega 3, and b-6, and a multi vitiamn from the heath food store. His teacher said he is having problems what is the next step what should I do.
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Post by eaccae on Nov 6, 2003 17:20:54 GMT -5
Catatonic - you do have a point.
But I don't think the meds are evil at all. I do think they are overprescribed. I ALSO believe that ADHD is overdiagnosed. I feel that too many people are diagnosing ADHD too quickly. I know a girl who was having trouble at school, the parents went to the pediatrician and she immediately prescribed ritalin. Turns out the girl was NOT ADD but had an LD that manifested ADD symptoms. This happened to my best friend's son. He was diagnosed with ADHD. Turns out he had sensory integration disorder and a couple of other things - BUT - believe it or not did NOT have ADHD (although these things are often comorbids of ADHD he in fact didn't have ADHD). Also - the fact that when the drug is prescribed - it is presented as a cure all is wrong as well but to say that all doctors do this is overgeneralizing. There are too many psychologists and pediatricians out there who I think are diagnosing with nothing but a parent/teacher checklist. Now, I am not saying that everyone diagnosed this way doesn't have it. But one of the reasons we went to a neoropsychologist was because we knew he was going to be testing for everything under the sun - ruling out other possibilities, etc. But our pediatrician doesn't diagnose ADHD. She will refer you to a neuropsychologist for that. And our school is the opposite - I don't think they would have presented me with ADHD as a possibility at all. I think DS would have failed constantly, been held back, and been labled. The opposite to what you went through. So yes, there are pediatricians, schools, psychologists that are at fault here. But I can't tell you that is the way it is everywhere. And actually - the majority of parents that I know who give their children medication have NEVER viewed it as a cureall. I'm sure there are some that do - but the majority of people I don't think do.
For us - we went to a neuropsychologist who did 3 days worth of testing, presented us with ALL options - including alternatives to medication - and told us that no matter what route we took - nothing was a "cure" - we would need behavior modifications etc. Look - we needed help asap - I'm not sure we would have gotten our son back if we had tried alternatives to medication. Both DH and I were completely against medication but were suddenly faced with something far worse. It took over a year to get my son back - and although it has now been three years - something was lost in that year of hell at school that we will never get back. You also have to remember that just as medication does not work for all children - neither does diet or natural alternatives. My son is not " Drugged" up. If you met him on his meds - you would never guess in a million years that he suffered from ADHD. AND you would never in a million years think that he was on any kind of medication. Off of his medication - you would definitely know that he was ADHD. And of course - we have gone through huge behavior modifications as well.
And so I do agree that there are people out there that are giving medication AND ADHD a bad name. But I hate to generalize this as a craze. Sounds alot like the media propaganda against ADHD.
I am sorry about your horrible experience!!
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SKay
Member Emeritus
Posts: 1,126
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Post by SKay on Nov 6, 2003 17:35:07 GMT -5
I am concerned too. While the meds have been around for a long time, they hadn't been used long-term, so the effects of long-term use are still unknown.
I'm afraid that there is something wrong when it seems that so many children need medication in order to function.
With time constraints, high cost of testing, and perks and education from the drug companies, medicating seems to the doctor the easiest or only thing to do.
I do think medication may be good in some cases, at least temporarily until the other treatments start taking effect.
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Post by eaccae on Nov 6, 2003 18:56:21 GMT -5
I can't speak to the others but ritalin has been around AND used long-term for over 40 years.
Another note - I think the drug companies are the most responsible for this so-called craze - there are ads and commercials every where. If anyone is touting medication as a cureall - it would definitely be the drug companies. And unfrotunately - there are kickbacks from drug companies to doctors. Just like with every occupation - there are some really good doctors and some really bad doctors. They are out there for sure. But just because a doctor recommends medication - IHO if the diagnosis has been thorough - I see nothing wrong with that. It's when there hasn't been a diagnosis or when the diagnosis has been made from not enough information that I think the problem starts. And I agree that is a problem. As for the schools - I think there is a problem that goes both ways - not recommending an eval for children that may need it and pushing parents towards something they feel is a cureall to make their lives easier.
The drug companies all need a leash. The schools need education in ADHD and other LDs. But my biggest concern are the ways - or lack of ways ADHD is being diagnosed. I think there is a trend among some higher degree professionals to jump to a diagnosis - they aren't doing their job - which corrolates directly with medication. If that makes any sense. I am really concerned about that.
(Let me just note that my main problem was NOT with behavior. I could deal with that. The big, giant problem is/was the focusing. Behavior modifications up the wazoo weren't going to help DS focus any better.)
And don't get me wrong. I think natural alternatives are totally valid and work for ALOT of people. I just think they don't work for all just like medication doesn't work for all. I did weigh the options between natural alternatives and medication and decided upon medication. Does that make me a bad person because as a knowledgable parent I made the choice to medicate first?
(Oh yes - another thing -
I do agree that these quotes are concerning too. But it may just be the way it was written. When someone says just diagnosed - it may have been a three month process. For us - we didn't start medication until 5 months after diagnosis - but had it been during the first half of the school year we would have started it immediately. Again, though, we went through a good month of evaluation. But I might have written it on the boards as "just" when I finally got my eval results. So if it is literal - they just got a quick diagnosis and started medication that day - yes - that is concerning - but sometimes we tend to paraphrase alot too. Just something to keep in mind.)
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Post by catatonic on Nov 6, 2003 19:57:38 GMT -5
I think, at the heart of the matter, we are all saying the same thing, the one truly important thing: "I love my child. I want to do what's best for my child."
The next step is to consult experts, because ADHD is difficult for us to live with and makes our children's lives very difficult. We can't - and shouldn't - ignore it. We're all asking the experts, whether it's the pediatrician, neurologist, or psychologist: "I trust you to guide me. What should I do?"
Because medicine is increasingly practiced by drug reps with their aggressive marketing tactics, their anwer almost universally is a drug-based solution. ADHD is a very real condition, a very real problem, and it needs to be taken seriously. However, doctors are abrogating their responsibility towards their patients in failing to remain informed about the increasingly powerful research that these medications may not be the best option and should certainly not be the first one. (And, yes, there is a great deal of sloppy medicine out there where children are not given comprehensive physical and psychological exams prior to diagnosis. Just slap that "ADHD" on there and send them on their way.)
By the time most of us reach the physician's office with our ADHD child, we are at the end of our rope. We're frustrated, desperate, willing to do whatever we're told if it will help our child. We've watched our child floundering socially, had numerous teacher conferences, curtailed our own recreational activities for fear the child will act up and spoil them. We're suffering as much as our child is. We need help.
I don't blame anyone who chooses to medicate their child. I've considered it myself. I can't even blame the doctors or the drug companies entirely. The problem goes far deeper than that. We've abused our environment, poisoned our water supply, made our foods dangerous and our entire planet a toxic place to live and future generations are going to pay a very high price. Neurological diseases like Alzheimers, ALS, ADHD, are showing alarming increases. Is it the MSG? The PCB's? Phenols? Industrial waste creeping into our ground water? Pesticides in our crops? Carpet cleaning solvents? Fine heavy metal particulates in the air we breathe? It's all of this and more and I don't see it changing as long as money - rather than ethics and responsibility - guide our global politics and our personal behaviors.
Sorry...I sound like some wacko doomsday prophet and I'm ranting. Sometimes the world we live in scares me. The thought of my son trying to function in that world scares me even more, because it's tough even for "normal" kids. To me, the bottom line is we're all doing the best we can. Some of us believe meds have saved our sanity (or our children's), some us believe meds are dangerous and wrong. That's just fine, as long as we don't judge one another for the choices we make, because we're all making them out of love. I think everyone on this board does a great job at that, offering support and help and comfort which means A LOT to me regardless of whether it originates from a parent who uses medication or one who does not. I'm grateful this forum is here, and for discussions like this where we can air our opinions and our feelings harmoniously.
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