ever heard of "attentive child"

[catseye]

they are wafers that a friend of mine suggested us trying... I was wondering if anyone else had tried it or not?? Manufacturer is Source naturals... Anyone ever hear of it??

cat

[catatonic]

Don't buy it. There's nothing at all wrong with the ingredients in "Attentive Child", they're all things you definitely want to include in your nutritional supplements for ADHD. Trouble is, there's not enough of most of them in the 2-wafer dose and it's very expensive to give supplements in this kind of pre-formulated pill.

For example, 2 wafers contain 111mg magnesium. This isn't nearly enough. Therapeutic dose is 6mg magnesium per pound of body weight. My 85 pound son takes 500mg daily, and it was up to 750mg when he was seriously deficient. Give magnesium!! Just make sure you give enough. The brain cannot function without magnesium, the gatekeeper of all neurotransmitter activity. Give lots of magnesium.

DMAE (a neurotransmitter precursor) is not high enough either at 100mg. You need to include 200-250mg if you are going to use it. (I don't advocate use of amino acids. It's too easy to get it wrong and make things worse. However, if you're going to include aminos, at least include enough to make a difference.)

Lecithin and phosphatadyl...the phosphatadyl compounds that are included are also lecithin. All are used to build the neurotransmitter choline. It's very important. It's also very cheap to buy a big jar of lecithin granules and sprinkle 1 or 2 Tbsp over your child's breakfast each morning, or add to a breakfast shake. 50 mg of lecithin is a joke. You need several grams.

15mg DHA is also a joke. Research has shown that you need to provide 480mg daily to do any good at all. My son takes 4 fish oil capsules daily for a total of 480mg DHA and 720mg EPA. 15mg isn't enough to do anything at all.

As for grape seed extract is a decent antioxidant, but Vitamin E is the best there is. Skip the grape and go for Vitamin E. It's necessary to metabolize the Omega-3 (DHA) anyway. And use 100 IU. 15mg isn't enough.

Overall, this supplement is inadequate. While the ingredients are all appropriate, they are not present in sufficient quantity to help your child. You'd be better off purchasing separate supplements. More effective as well as more cost-effective.

[catseye]

Too late I bought it Sd8 hates them anyway and spit it out... I will give the bottle to that friend that recommended it!! ARGH... Thanks for the input though!!

cat

[catatonic]

I have several of those "experiment gone wrong" bottles myself. It's such a learning experience that if I didn't goof up now and again, I'd worry I wasn't trying hard enough. Example...after reading lots of literature stressing the importantce of l-acetyl-carnitine in metabolising essential fatty acids, I bought a bottle of it for $20, convinced it would be the one last thing needed to make my son completely normal. Hah. Didn't have so much as a single effect that I could determine after watching and hoping for about 2 weeks. Took him off it again. No change again. Know anybody that wants 3/4 of a bottle of carnitine?

[catseye]

lol NOPE I dont know anyone who needs that carnitine!!

I also have a bottle of focus that was tried, and failed... Wouldnt it be nice if what works for one child worked for them all!

I am curious on the regimend you use? Do you have it posted here somewhere?? Even on the high dose of medicine sd's teachers are still complaining that sd is still inattentive, has no self control etc... I'm hopeing, no make that PRAYING that adding some other natural alternatives will help sd to get the full benefits of school... Not to mention if it worked, I would love to get sd off prescription meds... Without haveing to change our lifestyle by using the feingold (I have no doubt it works we just arent willing to do that yet) hopeing to find a route that works for us!!

cat

[catatonic]

The Feingold Diet really isn't as difficult as you might think, but I won't pretend it's a piece of cake. It does require some lifestyle changes and those changes aren't always in line with what the rest of the world is doing, so I can sympathize with your hesitation.

If you aren't willing to tackle the entire wonderful world of chemicals, you might consider eliminating artificial colors. They're easier to avoid than many of the other things on the Feingold black list and are, for my son anyway, a really key problem. Artifical colors trigger his migraines, his bedwetting, his sleep problems, and some of his nasty personality issues. If I were to pick a single thing to avoid, it would be the artificial colors.

But it's been my experience that Feingold -- even as strictly as we follow it -- is only half the battle. My son's hyperactivity and inattentiveness were only marginally improved until we began the supplements. The change has been miraculous. I'll list what we use in case it helps. This is for a 9-year-old who weighs 85 pounds.

1.) Omega-3 essential fatty acids, in the form of fish oil capsules called "Omega-3" from Now Foods. Each capsule contains 120mg DHA and 180mg EPA and he takes a total of 4 (2 in the morning and 2 in the evening).

2.) A 500mg Evening Primrose Oil capsule which includes 50mg GLA. This works in concert with the Omega-3 to provide a balanced fatty acid profile.

3.) A 100 IU capsule of Vitamin E. Long chain fatty acids cannot be metabolized without Vitamin E and reserves will be quickly depleted when you use Omega supplements. As an additional benefit, Vitamin E is one of the most powerful antioxidants known

4.) A multi-vitamin with iron and trace minerals. (Make sure there is zinc, manganese and copper.)

5.) A Vitamin B-complex called a Balanced B-50. In our experience, this has been critical in reducing temper tantrums and other lovely out-of-control behaviors. FOr many ADHD children, vitamin B6 alone is very effective. However, for others, they react negatively to the B6 but do well on the B1. Since I don't know which group my son will fall into and I'm a big chicken, I stick with what works for us, and that's the B-complex.

6.) Magnesium. If you do nothing else, provide a magnesium supplement. It's absolutely essential to brain function (as well as virtually every biochemical reaction in your body). The brain's neurotransmitters cannot be appropriately transported between neurons without magnesium to serve as the gatekeeper. Typical therapeutic dose is 6mg per pound of body weight. My 85 pound son ought to take about 510mg daily. Up to 1,000mg is entirely safe and the only side effect associated with high magnesium intake is loose bowels. I've given my boy 750mg daily in order to correct a very stubborn magnesium deficiency and he's had no gastro problems at all. You can use a calcium/magnesium supplement or magnesium alone. I do both, a calcium/magnesium in the evening which provides 250mg magnesium, and Source Naturals "Ultra Mag" in the morning, which provides a further 400mg magnesium.

In case that's not enough crap to try to get your kid to swallow...I also give my son 2 Tbsp of lecithin each morning. Lecithin is comprised of phospholipids - which are present in every organ of your body and make up 25% of your brain. Lecithin is also used to build the neurotransmitter choline. Lecithin doesn't taste bad, it's actually kind of good, sort of nutty. You can stir it into orange juice or sprinkle it over cereal. It doesn't ruin it. For some reason, the lecithin in particular seems related to my son's hyperness. Several days without it and his school behavior deteriorates markedly.

You may find, likely at about the 6-week point, that your son stops improving and begins acting more hyper again. I've heard from other parents who've implemented a supplement program while their child is on meds, that at some point the medication begins acting just as it would on a "normal" child, that is it makes them more hyper instead of depressing their activity level. This is a sign the supplements are working and it is time to back off the meds. Since we've never been the medication route, I really don't know what to tell you about this stage or how closely to coordinate with your physician. Maybe parents with more medication experience can help you out there.

Sorry this is a novel. Get me going on this subject and I'm just like the Energizer bunny.

[Kimmers]

Hi-

Just wanted to add my 2 cents on this subject...I bought the Attentive Child and actually used it myself on my son. I still have half a bottle left if that tells you how well it worked. Cat is right, the ingrediants are all good but never saw any REAL results that would make me want to buy it again. Expensive too, from GNC. He didn't mind the taste, just didn't improve behavior AT ALL.

Take care,

Kimmers

[AnneM]

Catatonic - the information you gave here is really helpful .... I am always interested in knowing about Natural Alternatives and this makes things so much clearer - I have always got confused when it comes to supplements ... but this is very clear and concise .... A big THANK YOU!

My son does take Concerta but I also give him a Vitamin B complex tablet per day and I give him Magnesium mixed up in a milk-shake (when he has a milkshake which is NOT every day!) .... The one thing which makes the "supplement" alternative unworkable for us is the number of tablets he would have to take AND take daily.... at 15 years old he is quite amenable to his TWO tablets each morning but I just know he would balk at taking any more than this!! Is there any "all-in-one product" you could recommend which would cover the supplements you mention? (I am sure I could happily get him to take ONE more pill but I am equally sure I couldn't get him to take 5-6 more!! ....)

Anne

[catatonic]

I've checked out most of the supplements that are marketed as ADHD "cures" and just don't feel any of them are particularly good. I have found one vitamin formulation that seems to meet all of the supplementation needs with the exception of magnesium and Omega-3.

It's by "Now Foods", those orange bottles that are sold in pretty much all health food stores. It's called "Special Two" -- because you have to take 2 per day (one in a.m. and one in p.m.). I buy it on-line through www.herbaladvisor.com where a bottle of 180 tablets (3-month supply) costs about $11.50.

Some of the high points:
It contains the same B-vitamins as the Balanced B-50 complex we use.
It contains 200IU vitamin E (you need at least 100 IU in conjunction with the Omega-3's).
It contains iron and trace minerals
It contains 500mg vitamin C
It contains 380mg of amino acids

A couple of drawbacks:
The magnesium is insufficient (only 50mg) so we still use a separate magnesium supplement
It contains "green superfood concentrates" that include spirulina and alfalfa juice and they make it look and smell like the treats I give my horses.

I give this vitamin to my older boys along with a 400mg magnesium tablet and a DHA-250 capsule in the morning. In the evening they get a another vitamin and another DHA-250. (They say they like its alfalfa-ness, which I find extremely weird!) I do NOT use this for my son with ADHD because he reacted adversely to something in it, I have no idea what, but I put him back on his zillion pills immediately and he went back to normal. My son, however, seems very touchy about changes in his vitamins, which has made me a little obsessive about always buying the same thing. Thank goodness I have a houseful of kids who can consume the failed experiments without any problem.

[AnneM]

Catatonic - another big thankyou!! ... I have to say I am really pleased you are here - because you really know so much and understand so much about natural alternatives. I will seek out this tonic because it sounds just the sort of thing my son WOULD take and it WOULDN'T feel like taking another "pill" ... !! ("Not ANOTHER pill Mum!!").... Hopefully I can sneak in the magnesium and the DHA-250 without too much protest!! ....

Lots of thanks ....