Bipolar

[swmom]

Does anyone's child have ADHD and Bipolar?

[AnneM]

Hi swmom .. I think you will find this is quite a common combination... here are some statistics:

60% of children with bipolar have adhd
6% of children with adhd have bipolar

In other words there are more kids with adhd and no bipolar than there are kids with bipolar and no adhd! (I found these statistics a little confusing at first but they made sense when I thought about it!)

Also when both are found together the bipolar will very much outweigh the adhd ... and the bipolar should be the "primary" consideration in any diagnosis.

Lots of GOOD LUCK ...

[Amsmom]

Swmom, my ds7 is ADHD/bipolar, I think the bipolar outweighs the ADHD.
Anne, I heard similar statistics, but the ADHD w/ bipolar was 30% I think.

[swmom]

Amsmom -

How were you able to distinguish between the ADHD and the Bipolar? Do you have official diagnoses for both? Also, how are you treating each one?
With meds? Supplements?

You can send me a private e-mail if you wish. I'm wondering if we might have both going on. I'm trying to decide if the moodiness we see is as significant as bipolar or just super emotional like with ADHD.

Any help is most appreciated.

[AustinsMom]

I had read this post earlier, then when sorting the mail at the office, saw a brochure to my husband concerning a conference called "Is it ADHD or Pediatric Bipolar". I thought the intro of the brochure had interesting info:

"ATHD and Pediatric Bipolar Disorder (PBD) are easily confused because prominent symptoms like hyperactivity, distractedness, impusliveness, risk-taking and racing speech are found in both. The latest research findings suggest that about 94% of children with PBD had been misdiagnosed as having ADHD. The conventional wisdom that Bipolar Disorder had a "late adolescence" onset has led to significant under recognition of PBD. It has also led to exacerbation of symptoms when children were given the wrong medicine."

What I thought might be of benefit to you is the presenter's name so perhaps you could find some of his writings in an internet search. It is Hanno W. Kirk, PhD, and his specialization is children and adolescents with ADHD and Bipolar Disorder. He practices in Lewisburg, West Virginia.

I hope you are able to find some info that might be of help to you.

[Amsmom]

Swmom,
My son's first dx at age 3 was ODD(Oppositional Defiance Disorder). Next came the ADHD dx at 4 and the beginning of meds. He was unable to take stimulants as they increased his anxiety, tics & negative behaviors. After trying numerous meds, my son finally responded well to Risperdal for aggression and Depakote for mood stability. Thankfully, this has been the best combination of meds for him. His psychiatrist was careful not to dx bipolar too early. About a yr ago, he went over the symptoms of bipolar with me and asked me what I thought. I said it sounded like my son and he agreed. One indicator is fits of rage, which are very hard for the child to get out of. Also, rapid mood swings are predominant. My son experiences rapid cycling, where he changes moods within minutes. (Adult bipolar individuals experience mood changes within days). An excellent book that I recommend is The Bipolar Child by Demitri & Janice Papolos. You can check it out on the website www.bipolarchild.com. Bipolar disorder is usually familial. My son's father is undiagnosed bipolar and refuses to get help (We are divorced and he is not often in my son's life). Do you have a psychiatrist or neurologist seeing your son? Best of luck to you, let me know how things are going.

[swmom]

Amsmom -

Thanks for the description. When you say 'fits of rage', do you mean just getting angry alot or do you mean screaming at the tops of their lungs, throwing things,
getting violent. Can you give me an example?

[counting2ten]

Wow Ansmom, you are describing my son to a t! C was diagnosed at 4 with severe ADHD, at 7 with Tourette's and Pervasive Developmental Disorder not otherwise specified. Yes that is a real diagnosis. He tried to kill himself by jumping out of a second story window last April and we upped his visits with his psychaitrist since then. He is only 10 years old! She diagnosed him within weeks with Bipolar but I chose to not medicate him until I was 100% sure there wasn't something else going on. She finally got through to me that there will always be something else going on with him mental health wise. Since September he has been alternately a monster wanting to kill me etc to I am the best mom ever. His moods change sometimes 3 times an hour. Rage, defiance, obnoxious etc to loving, funny, and weeping in a puddle on the floor. When he is raging I just have to make sure he and everyone else is safe and when he is weeping just hug him.

I can't even begin to understand what it must be like for these kids on a daily basis. Most nights he can't fall asleep until 1 am and is an absolute nightmare when I wake him at 7:30. He is on Concerta, Epival and Risperedone. His very presence is our house can be an absolute joy or utter turmoil according to his mood of the moment.
I am a full time working single mom with no support from dad so I never really get a break from him. I would be afraid to leave him with someone as he can get quite intense and frightening.

I love him to death even in the bad moments and I am so glad that I have the patience and strength to deal with him without going over the edge myself.

SWmom

fits of rage can be anything from outright defiance, to throwing things, screaming, aggression. Sometimes even just an almost deadly silent glare where they say nothing but you know they are almost plotting your death.

[swmom]

To all -

When they're "rapid cycling," are there ever things that set them off on being particularly happy or particularly sad? For example, when our daughter becomes really angry and hard to deal with, oftentimes we can figure out what's causing it like anxiety about something's that due at school(which happens alot) or we know she's exhausted.

Also, are bipolar kids especially sensitive to certain foods? Anyone have any experience with this?

[Amsmom]

Swmom,
Counting2ten described rages well. My son would overreact to the smallest things, scream, cry, throw things, sometimes be physically aggressive and not be
able to get himself out of the raging (even with my attempts to help), until it ran its course. It still happens when he is tired sometimes.

Counting2ten,
Your post made my eyes tear. My ds7 used to say he was going to kill himself, but thank God, never made the attempt. I can only imagine how hard it has been for you. I, too, am a single mom with no support from the donor (the "father").

Your description,"Rage, defiance, obnoxious etc to loving, funny, and weeping in a puddle on the floor."
perfectly describes my son as well. I feel like I have been through a war on a daily basis.
I am so glad that we all have each other.

[swmom]

When you're kids are having these rages, do they ever
say, "Mommy, my head is hurting"?

[Amsmom]

My son has had headaches, but he usually reports them after the rages. He did have a full neurological workup (MRI, CAT scan, EEG) based on his behaviors and complaints of headaches. Thankfully, they were negative.

[swmom]

Thanks for all your responses. We're taking her in January for emotional testing and specificially to see if
she has bipolar. From all the posts I've read and all the general reading I've done, I don't think she has it. She's moody but she doesn't really have rages that last for hours, or some of the other things that characterize bipolar. We'll see what the doctor says.

OK - got another question. Are any of you familiar with
studies on the use of omega 3 to treat bipolar? This is really exciting stuff.

[Amsmom]

Hi Swmom,
Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I have heard about the omega 3 oils, but we haven't tried them. I asked his psychiatrist (who I trust implicitly) about them, but he doesn't feel that they would help by son. Bipolar is such a serious disorder, with such frightening symptoms. As much as I wish my son did not have to take medication, I am very afraid of how he would be off of his meds. He used to talk about killing himself and others (he was only 4) and was so physically aggressive, I am terrified of those symptoms re-appearing while we tried the omega 3's. But thanks for the thought

[ohmama]

SWmom,
One of my twins was dx with "ring of fire ADHD" see www.brainplace.com for details on the symptoms of this disorder. It is very closely related with bipolar. Some would say it really is bipolar. This dx is a result of a SPECT brain scan that show the different areas of the brain both resting and in action. He also has anxiety disorder, overfocus features, depressive issues and cyclic mood changes, temporal lobe dysfunction and parietal lobe dysfunction.

A good website for bipolar disorder in children is www.bpkids.org There is also an online newsletter you may find helpful. It is mostly for professionals but of interest to parents as well. It summarizes recent studies on treatments see www.mhsource.com/bipolar/letter.html.

If you are more of a book person, as I am you should check out BIPOLAR DISORDERS, A Guide to Helping Children & Adolescents by Mitzi Waltz. I have often thought of this book as a valuable friend with every answer to my fears.

You may be surprised to know there are studies showing the value of Omega 3 long chain fatty acids in helping with ADHD and especially bipolar disorder. Unfortunately many doctors are not aware of this as they focus on only medication. This is something you can use along with meds and should not be missed. If you will read THE OMEGA 3 CONNECTION by Dr. Andrew Stoll you will probably get very upset with your doctor for not being up on it. Dr. Stoll is a psychopharmacologist (a psychiatrist specializing in medication treatments) and researcher. If you read no other book you should not miss this one. Also, THE LCP SOLUTION by Stordy & Nicholls will give you the basics on how these fatty acids help backed up by scienctific research. Neither of these authors are trying to sell you a product. If you research this you will be better informed and not be at the mercy of just a doctors opinion or his prescription pad.