dyslexia/ dysgraphia?

[catseye]

I have seen it both ways here, I am wondering if they are both the same?? And how old before this can truely be diagnosed? Since I know it is common in young kids to write things backwards etc...

I ask because last night in dictating words to sd 8, this was a common mistake... To the point that in writing the word "on" she would write the "n" first then go before the "n" and write the "o"... So writting right to left sort of thing... NOTE this was after the word "no" so I dont know if that is why she wrote the "n" first or not... Several "b" were written as " D", she is repeating the first grade, and still at kindergarten emerging level... This is soooo hard!!

Any help on those 2 dissorders(possibly the same dissorder?) appreciated, thanks...

cat

[eaccae]

Well - they are two different disorders. I don't have any experience with dyslexia but DS does have dysgraphia. Here are two good articles regarding dysgraphia:

When Writing's a Problem - A description of Dysgraphia

and

Dysgraphia - Learning Disabilities in Writing

[mskris]

Yes, they are two different disorders. It is actually developmentally normal for kids that age to write "b" as " D" and so on. My son (who was tested and is NOT dyslexic), still does so occasionally in the third grade (and he's at grade level). Dysgraphia, as I understand it, is more of a difficulty forming the letters and words on paper (eg, words may run into each other because of spacing problems, or handwriting is just illegible). My ds has improved immensely in just one year, so perhaps you don't have to be too concerned at this age? It is worth having her tested, though. Is she having difficulty reading the words, or just writing them? My ds is a terrible speller, though so is his dad. I honestly don't think he's dysgraphic or dyslexic, though. He is a wiz at math and does not transpose numbers at all (which can occur with dyslexia).

Kris

[catseye]

The teachers have been complaining about her spacing between the letters, and words more... Her letters in the same word often run into each other...Let alone separate the next word...

Yes she also has a horrible time with reading, then today out of the blue (they are working on 3-4 letter words max) while doing homework she read the word "pictures" I swear I almost fell off my chair... Then a few seconds later couldnt read the word " Dog", or even "pictures" again... I guess it was a lucky guess the first time... ARGH!!

[ChicagoRedwing2b]

I was DX'ed with Dyslexia at a young age, I think I rememebr it at about 3rd or 4th grade. I was 8 years old I think.

They have testing that the school can have done to help uncover Dyslexia and such.

I Know that Dyslexia is very different from person to person but the problems can be simular if not identical, while others can be totally different.

The level of problems can also be higher or lower between people.

I was pretty severely dyslexic, but my sister was only mildly, and my brother was in tune with my severity level, and my father was the worst of us all.

Dyslexia is best known as problems with sounding out words, letters, and phonics, as well as the writen letters and words. Children will show signs of mathmatical errors not becasue of lack of knowledge to solve the problem, but because the numbers they see are inputted into the brain incorrectly as other numbers, and letters are switched, flipped, backwards and left out completely.

I came up with a great analogy to help understand the basics of Dyslexia and what it is as follows:

Think of a normal person's brain as a simple elctrical curcuit. The electical signal is created from some incoming data. That data is processed, matched, and stored properly as the data requires.

Data = Dog
Person processes the letters D O G. It then tries to match anything in memory that matches those letters or sounds of the word DOG or the letters D O G.

It find in memory that DOG spell dog, an animal that is man's best friend, furry, and friendly, and what ever other relavant info that is associcated with the word DOG.

The brain stores the data in the proper place that has all the info about DOG.

In a Dyslexic person the brain's elctrical curcuits are crossed, cut, and non functional.

The word DOG comes into the brain, and the eyes curcuit is crossed with D and B so the brain errors as seeing DOG as BOG. The memroy starts looking for Bog rather then DOG and thus find incorrect meaning and associated information about Bog rather then Dog.
The word Dog is understood and seen as Bog by error and stored incorrectly in memeory.

Next time the word Dog comes up the person might see DOG but since Dog was stored in Bog and vice Versa the meaning of Dog changes to Bog, and the error happens again.


Basically in a nut shell The Dyslexic brain is a huge group of curcuits that have some crossed, some cut, and some dead. Data on these curcuits can get lost, forgotten, mixed up, confused with other data, and more.

Some people think Dyslexia is also related to a sort of inner ear disorder. When treating some Dyslexic people for motion sickness and inner ear medication, they were found to have an increased performance abillity over not taking those meds.

My brother took Benadryle daily, and he improved tramanedously, while I fell asleep taking it.

My brother is not ADD though, and I was but I did not find out until I was 25.

Dyslexia is rarely alone, keep this in mind that learning disorders can hide other issues like ADD. Ask the questions, request the testing be done, and alwasy seek second opinions.

[mommy007]

My son has been transposing the D and B's, he is now in 5th grade and still doing it. He writes his d's and b's in capitals to compensate. The school has no problem with this - I do. they say he will be typing soon, I say yea . . but he needs to learn the difference. The OT at school is going to work with him.

We are going to have him tested for Dysgraphia, his letters are all over the place, not touching the lines, and he is not "margin" aware, his letters are all different sizes and his spelling is awful - on test he can get 100 - every day spelling is awful - We have an iep now so he is grade on "content" not errors.

[eaccae]

Mommy007

his letters are all over the place, not touching the lines, and he is not "margin" aware, his letters are all different sizes and his spelling is awful - on test he can get 100 - every day spelling is awful

This is our problem as well - he aces his spelling tests but can't spell to save his life in everyday writing. Spacing, margins - forget about it. Pretty much - every symptom of dysgraphia - is DS in a nutshell. I'm glad you are getting OT. We have our IEP meeting on the 25th - but we are having a really hard time getting the OT. They say he can type. Which I want him to do for content work - but the child is only in third grade and his writing is illegible - I want him to have OT as well. He doesn't have to write a novel by hand - a few legible paragraphs would be nice.

[MommysAngel]

My son is 71/2 and still reverses his letters and numbers when reading and writing. He doesn't do is consistently through every single word he reads or writes but he is struggling to read to the point where he will give up a story just so he doesn't have to read and he loves story time. I don't want to push him too hard. We really enjoy story time and I don't want to take that away from him. I have expressed my concerns to the school but they still haven't acted on testing him. He just started at a new school because of a move and it didn't go well. He hasn't even had his speech therapy in the last 5 weeks let alone anything else. I am working that out but are these concerns of dyslexia/dysgraphia or something else? All inquires appreciated!

Thanks, Cynthia

[ChicagoRedwing2b]

What ever you parents do, please make sure they don't just pass the buck and say "well he can just type it".

This I have heard repeatedly by parents complaining as you all are, and the schools would rather just let the kid type.

But this solves nothing for the child. His/Her writing skills will not develop, and will continue to regress until its a major problem in high school or even college, when hand writen papers can be big problems.

Make sure the school teaches your children to write and get someone in there to help teach then through their learning disorder, otherwise you will fine your child 25 and writing at a high school freshman level and the hand writing still looks just as bad as it did in grade school.

[eaccae]

What ever you parents do, please make sure they don't just pass the buck and say "well he can just type it".

This I have heard repeatedly by parents complaining as you all are, and the schools would rather just let the kid type.

But this solves nothing for the child. His/Her writing skills will not develop, and will continue to regress until its a major problem in high school or even college, when hand writen papers can be big problems.

Make sure the school teaches your children to write and get someone in there to help teach then through their learning disorder, otherwise you will fine your child 25 and writing at a high school freshman level and the hand writing still looks just as bad as it did in grade school.

I absolutely agree with you wholeheartedtly. This is the main reason I am fighting for OT. We also have a private tutor twice a week at $30 a half hour. There definitely has to be a balance. And I want DS to be more comfortable writing and have more legible handwriting so that he can do short term things - essays, test, etc. But the reality is that he also is going to be doing mainly typing for content work. I have spoken with so many adult dysgraphics - writing is not just mentally painful but physically painful as well. At DS's grade (3) and up - writing has become so integrated in learning of all subjects that if you can't write well - you are not going too far. DS has been working on his handwriting for over a year. It is still painful and it is still almost illegible. So for content purposes - i.e., writer's workshop - typing is the best way for him to learn and progress and be successful at school. But yes - I do agree that remediation is essential as well. All the research I have done on dysgraphia points to the fact that remediation on a continuous basis will help to improve handwriting. (But on another note, DH who has dysgraphia and never typed anything until maybe ten years ago still has handwriting that looks like a seven year-old's. Practice can make better but practice doesn't always make perfect).

As for college - when I went 13 years ago - almost all my papers HAD to be typed. So as far as papers go - I don't think anyone would actually request a handwritten paper.

So the crux, IMO - go with typing for content and get some kind of remediation - whether it be OT or tutoring or both. This way the pressure is taken off of the writing and your child can excel while still getting practice. For dysgraphics the mechanics of writing gets in the way of the process of writing. Eliminating the obstacle opens up a whole new world for them. So don't discount the typing. But at the same time - remediation is necessary - just without pressure.

[Denise110]

::)Catseye my dd is the same way she 6 in the 1st. She reverses letters and words. She cant keep her letters in the lines and sometimes uses capitals were she's not suppost too. We work on her spelling words all week and by Thurs. she can spell every one, but win she takes the test she usually gets an F or barely passes. The teacher counts points off if it's not wrote perfectly. I've said something about her maybe having Dysgraphia. Her response was this is how they expect a 1st grader to write, but yet all she does is complain about her hand writting and leave red marks all over her papers.

And her reading! We can read her weekly story all week. It usually takes all week, but on Thurs. she can read the story word for word. On Fri. when she takes the test she always fails.

I don't understand how she can do it with me but not at school. Her Math they started doing subtraction. She was failing bad at this. So I sat down with her and explained it to her a couple of times. She couldn't get it. Well her teacher does not like them to use their fingers. They won't them to do it from memory. An ADHHHHHHD trying to relie on memory PLEASE!!!! So I told her don't let the teacher see, but use ur fingers if u need too. Guess what she's doing great with subtraction now.

Sometimes I wonder if it's not the teacher with the problem. ;D