|
|
Post by MomX2 on Jul 1, 2004 22:12:03 GMT -5
My daughter was completely taken off ADHD medications and may have been misdiagnosed. From the start they only suggested she had very mild ADHD anyway. Now they want to try her on the mood stabilizer, Depakote. The side effects listed frighten me and make me wonder if it's absolutely necessary. She is a very borderline child. She's very difficult to deal with but she gets by and even manages to stay on the honor roll in school. Her teacher said she wasn't at all the most difficult kid in the class to deal with. She has friends but I'm afraid she will alienate them with her anger at times. I've noticed since we stopped the Straterra she is not as angry as often. We had the same problem with extreme anger outbursts on Concerta. She's always been an aggressive child though and we've never spanked her so she didn't learn that from us. In fact, I worked hard at teaching her not to be aggressive. I've had to ask her 4-H leaders not to tell her to use typical aggressive methods the teach in training the dogs because she may get too angry and be too harsh if the dog fails to cooperate. She just doesn't know how far to take it. We've been teaching her to use positive reinforcement and attentional training at home.
|
|
|
|
Post by ohmama on Jul 2, 2004 1:30:33 GMT -5
Your awareness of what is happening with your daughters temperment and teaching her how to cope are excellent. This along with the Depakote will make a big difference in her life.
My son has been taking Depakote going on 6 months now. I have found this to be a very mild med. So much so that I didn't even see any results at first.
We started with a very small dose of 250mg (125mg twice a day) for 2 weeks. Then it went up to 375mg for 1 week. After that there was a blood test to check for his Depakote blood level. This tells if he is in the therapeutic range, no guess work. At this point he was not so we went to 500mg (250mg twice a day). After 4 weeks on this dose there was another blood level check and he was in the low therapeutic range of 53. His temper outbursts were getting to be less frequently and there were no side effects at all so now we are at 750mg and a Depakote blood level of 62. There is no out of control behavior and no side effects.
I think because we went slow we did not experience any problems. It is important to get the blood work done so you know where you are at and can judge the right target level that works best. Therapeutic is a blood level of 50 - 100. Everyone is different so there is no set level that is like one size fits all. Your daughter may do fine at a level of 55 or may require something higher. You will be able to determine the best level by the way she is feeling and when you see she is gaining control over her anger.
There is a lot of information available on this med. It is not new or experimental. We found it to be very safe and mild. It has made such a difference with my son! I hope you will find the same.
|
|
|
|
Post by LaurieL on Jul 2, 2004 16:20:33 GMT -5
Oh Mama, is that your ring of fire child? You did decide to go with meds after your visit to the Amen clinic? It sounds like it is working for you and I am glad. I haven't been around here for awhile so wan't sure what happened with him.
|
|
|
|
Post by ohmama on Jul 2, 2004 17:24:28 GMT -5
Laurie,
Yes, its my "fire boy" from the clinic. You probably remember how skeptical I was about using meds. I tried everything in the natural alternative line and was not able to conquer this temporal lobe problem by that means. The Depakote has been the answer! The omega-3 works along with this so well that he is like a different child.
After looking at the brain scans and doing tons of research about his condition I could see this was what I needed to do. It's working!!
I remember you and hope you won't be a stranger to the board now. We all need each other, welcome back.
|
|
|
|
Post by MomX2 on Jul 6, 2004 19:56:11 GMT -5
Ohmama, thanks for the response. I actually posted this question on 2 boards and I think you responded on the other board as well. I just wanted you to know that I really appreciated your response. This is probably the hardest decision I've ever had to make in my life concerning my child. You're the only one so far who has really given me any reason to believe this medication could have a positive effect. Even the doctor played up the possible negative side-effects and didn't say much of anything positive. We've haven't had good experiences with any of the medications we've tried to far and that makes me very hesitant to try anything else.
I now have strong suspicions that both the Concerta and then the Straterra caused my daughter to become much more angry and aggressive. In fact I had told her 1st therapist that she was becoming far less aggressive as she got older and then we had a serious outburst just 2 days after starting the Concerta. I didn't see any problems at first with the Straterra. Those problems kind of snuck up on me. I forgot that it takes time for the Straterra to build up. Not only does it take time to see the positive effects but it could also take more time to see the serious negative effects. Since she has stopped the medication she has become far more friendly & happy again but also seems to be more hyperactive and silly at times (like she used to be).
|
|
|
|
Post by ohmama on Jul 7, 2004 0:15:54 GMT -5
MomX2,
I know that you and I can find reasons to not give meds because of the fear of side effects. I think I had to realize once it got really bad that it was worth the "risk". I reasoned that if I did nothing and convinced myself he would out grow these problems I would be in denial, my son wouldn't stand a chance in the real world. Sure, I can set the stage for him now and protect him but what good would that do when he got old enough to find his own way? I would be doing him a true injustice by not giving him meds. That fear was greater than the fear of side effects.
I have complete control over him now because he is 10 yrs old. How much will I have when he is 17 or 18? There is a window of opportunity to do the best I can now. If I wait too long it will be too late. His conduct and behavior won't get better unless I help him to change that. He really needs help.
For a problem with a mood disorder Depakote is a very standard treatment. I like the fact that the blood test keeps me informed on where he is with the strength of the dose. Also, the liver function test lets me know how his liver is doing. I wish all meds could be monitored this way.
So, I guess I'm saying put your fear aside. This could be the very thing she needs and has needed all along. Maybe it took her having a bad reaction to those other meds to make the doctor realize that the mood disorder needs to be addressed first. It's so worth a try!
|
|
|
|
Post by MomX2 on Jul 8, 2004 9:40:32 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying and it's what I keep telling myself. Part of the difficulty with my daughter is that her behavior is not as severe or extreme. Not only that but it's similar to other family members who have outgrown many of the behaviors. It's probably that they're still temperamental but have developed a more mature ability to think and reason so don't act out as much as they did as children. If her behavior was more severe I think it would be easier to decide to use the medication. It has been an ongoing problem with her for years though.
Also my husband is waiting for me to make this decision. I've tried to discuss it with him but he seems to think this is beyond his understanding. He'll go along with whatever I say so the decision really is entirely up to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Amsmom on Jul 9, 2004 20:52:21 GMT -5
Momx2,
My ds8 has also, thankfully, done well on Depakote. The description that ohmama gave is exactly the course that we went through as well... starting with 250, doing Depakote level checks, going to 500, repeating blood levels and then finally getting to optimal dosage at 750mg. My son has liver the function blood test and Depakote level done twice a year. Depakote has been given to children for many years for seizure disorder, with no adverse effects. Good luck and keep us posted.
|
|
|
|
Post by ohmama on Jul 11, 2004 17:26:41 GMT -5
Amsmom,
This past week has been difficult for my boy and the doctor and I decided to raise his dose to 1000mg. We will take a blood level in 4 weeks. It is called Depakote ER 1000mg and is given once a day.
I wanted to ask you what your sons blood level is at now that he is on 750mg? The doctor told me he thinks the ideal level for temporal lobe problems (without seizures) is in the area of approx. 80 or 90 for a blood level. I thought he was doing good at 62 but realize this is in the low therapeutic range and there are some temper problems starting up again. Nothing serious or violent like before but it could use some attention before it becomes that way. I'm trying to be "better safe than sorry" as they say and take care of it now. Will see how this new dose goes.
|
|
|
|
Post by Amsmom on Jul 11, 2004 18:18:16 GMT -5
ohmama,
So sorry to hear your little guy is having trouble. Mine is actually having trouble with his temper too, so I will be anxious to see what his Depakote levels are now. I am awaiting the results of his recent lab work. It has been a pain getting the hospital to fax it to the dr. I'll let you know as soon as I find out. I know how difficult the trials are. Good luck to you.
|
|
|
|
Post by ScribbleCat on Jul 12, 2004 3:29:18 GMT -5
 Hello everyone, I'm new here and hope I may offer some useful experience. I am 31 years old and was diagnosed as Bipolar 2 (mild) with ADHD (common element of Bipolarity) a year and a half ago. I have been on Depakote and my own research leads me to believe that this drug is actually much safer in the long run since it was not designed specifically to "alter" brain chemistry the way typical ADD/ADHD meds are. I ceased using Depakote only as my husband and I were surprised and blessed - with a son on the way. I just had a Level II ultrasound and our baby is perfectly healthy. Thankfully, I can now return safely to Depakote which is my critical mood stablizer. Unlike most drugs used for mood disorders, Doctors seem to know exactly how Depakote affects the brain and body. Just in case anyone isn't aware - Depakote is actually an anti-convulsant which epileptics depend on to prevent seizures. Also unlike other "mood stabilizers" which include anti-psychotics and other heavy weight drug families - Depakote is not in the "benzo" family, meaning it contains no element of diazepam (valium) which can lead to addiction and abuse. What I really came here to say however, was that I noticed many of you parents reporting more agitated, angry "outbursts" associated with the highly controversial stimulants. I wanted to offer some insight as to why this happens... "Ritalin Rebound" is a very real "come down" when the following meds wear off (and I am only commenting on those listed because I've been on them myself): Ritalin, Ritalin LA, Concerta, Focalin Literally and suddenly, you become so aggrevated you could spit nails. I would become not only angry and "snappy" but actually mean and vicious (verbally). Truly, it comes on without warning and lasts for an hour or so. As a result, I am now dependent on a very high dose of Focalin and have tried other forms and combinations. I do have a good Doc, and I am meeting her tommorrow to discuss how on earth I'm going to get off the stimulants. I will not cause enough stress to harm my baby, but the stress of this dependency and the mood roller coaster I live on may be worse. Any thoughts or advice are welcome. I wanted to comment... my life has greatly and drastically improved since I have been taking a mood stabilzer. And for many months, Ritalin (all versions) have helped me tremendously. However, I am an adult - safe, self-aware, expressive - and I can tolerate drastic mood shifts temporarily as we work towards the appropriate med combination. I was also coming out of a deadly drug addiction when I actively sought proper medical diagnosis and treatment. The use of heavy meds in my case made sense - I was recovering from a horrid trauma (addiction). I can't help but feel that these meds are much to severe for children of any age. I may be wrong - and for all it's worth, prior to my addiction I achieved many things such as a College degree and an impressive 8 year Marketing career. I always struggled with depression, but hid all signs of it very well. In fact, it's my experience that those who are the brightest may be mislabled. I couldn't focus in certain subjects throughout my life because the simply weren't interesting. Those things which I am passionate about however - I can focus far beyond many "normal" people are even capable of. I battled depression because I was lonely and couldn't relate well to others my age. I was ridiculed for being a "weird" kid - and rightly so. I read books about real estate investing when I was twelve. Sorry - didn't mean to ramble here, or contradict myself but simply wanted to offer some positive words. Maybe your children are quite fine - and gifted - causing some behavior that falls outside the norm. I can't imagine how tough it is as a parent in this situation... and I may very well be nuts. I wish you all well and feel free to ask me any Q's about these meds since I've tried them all. Kind Regards, Caterina
|
|
|
|
Post by MomX2 on Jul 12, 2004 6:48:32 GMT -5
Wow, thanks for the insight Caterina. I've been trying so hard to understand what makes my daughter react the way that she does. In some ways she's like me but in many ways she's different. I never talked back to adults at her age though I probably had a lot of negative thoughts I kept to myself. She's the type of kid that can break your heart as a parent because she is so bright. She's intelligent but she loses out because of angry, defiant behavior that causes adults to judge her harshly and sometimes overlook her intelligence. They blame her for her behavior and they almost never know how to talk to her and work with her. I feel if we don't try something with the medication she is going to learn about rejection over and over because of her negative reactions and I'm afraid this could cause her to become a very angry person toward everyone else or nearly everyone else.
|
|
|
|
Post by ohmama on Jul 12, 2004 13:40:23 GMT -5
Caterina,
Please go to the Natural Alternatives section of the forum. I bumped up the topic "Nutrition vs. Ritalin - amino acids" for information on what the stims can be replaced with. I think this is the best advice on getting off stims and deserves your consideration.
|
|
|
|
Post by Amsmom on Jul 12, 2004 19:17:53 GMT -5
ohmama, The dr called tonight, the Depakote level for my ds is 82. (This is on 750 mg). Good luck mama. |
|
|
|
Post by ohmama on Jul 12, 2004 19:33:51 GMT -5
Amsmom,
That sounds like a good level (82). I've noticed that it takes a while to see the results when there is a new level. I am thinking I would like to see my fire boys level around 82 also. Will you be adding another med? I know you probably said in other posts but I don't remember, is he taking anything besides the Depakote?
I just filled the prescription today and will start on the Depakote ER tomorrow. Will let you know how it goes.
ScribbleCat/Caterinia,
I forgot to say welcome to you. I am glad to see you found us and want you to know I enjoyed hearing about your experience. I look forward to hearing more from you.
|
|
