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Post by AnneM on Aug 4, 2005 12:18:30 GMT -5
This is a spin-off from Mom2tj's thread about bullying and perceived "tattling" (from the other kids) if the child goes ahead and reports to a teacher .... I honestly believe (and please, please correct me here!) that MOST children will NOT automatically go off to "tell the teacher/supervisor etc. etc." as soon as any problems start... and as they get older this gets even MORE unlikely!! ... Sam was bullied twice in his life and on BOTH occasions he refused to report it to a teacher .. and it took him 2 weeks + to admit it was happening at all to us .. and even THEN he kept saying "Oh its ok now ... !" ... and I gather that that time frame is pretty short .... as many kids get bullied for months/years and yet say NOTHING!! .. and saying NOTHING to anyone with authority (I understand!) is one of the classic problems when it comes to bullying!!  I also don't believe as ADULTS that we do this automatically either!! ... When any of us have a problem/difference of opinion with someone else at work it is DEFINITELY not well thought of if we race "straight to the boss!" ... In fact I would say that in the "adult" world this is an absolute "LAST RESORT" ... !! I know speaking for myself here ... that I would far prefer to try and "settle things" with a colleague directly - just between us rather than rushing to the boss's office saying "Oh he/she did so and so" !! ... NO WAY!!  Just me having one of those  moments !! ... |
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SKay
Member Emeritus
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Post by SKay on Aug 4, 2005 13:40:36 GMT -5
Are there any good choices for the kids to make? Besides telling an adult, all I see is
ignore them
fight back
Ignoring is often impossible. All it did was make me feel alone.
Fighting back could bring serious injury and suspension from school.
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Post by AnneM on Aug 4, 2005 13:56:51 GMT -5
I know Skay !!  I kind of wonder whether telling the PARENTS isn't hugely preferable (in most cases anyway!) to telling a TEACHER .. The parent can then go to the teacher and hopefully sort it out without it being obvious that "tattling" had occurred!! ... A story ... When my son was about 13 he had his mobile (cell) phone stolen ... it was stolen from someone he KNEW ... an older boy that Sam thought he LIKED ... (or rather misguidedly LOOKED UP TO) .. When the phone was stolen from right under his nose (i.e. this older kid had asked Sam if he could borrow his phone .. and then literally RUN OFF with it!) ... EVERYONE knew WHO had stolen it ... Our automatic reaction as PARENTS was to run to the police .... but SAM's "REAL" FRIENDS STOPPED US FROM DOING THAT ... (kids who I have a lot of time for and still do 5 years later) The older boy (the phone stealer) was apparently a notorious "bad guy" ... but ... but he had LOTS OF CONTACTS ... Sam's friends convinced us that IF we went to the police (and yes we knew this boys name, address etc) the repercussions on Sam could be horrendous !! .. We would never feel safe for him to go out because this boy and his "friends" could be a "constant threat" ... and even it they WEREN'T we would WORRY that they were!! In fact one female friend of Sams who I have a lot of time for (both then and today) said to me "I guess it sadly comes down to what is more important - getting the phone back and letting justice be done OR Sam's safety!!" ... Scary stuff ... and we DON't live in inner city London or in any way a notorious tough area either!! I am digressing somewhat .... but that occasion was a scary enlightenment of the "real world" to me!! ...  PS On that occasion we DID call the police without giving our name ... but we asked them their opinion and stated our fears ... and they said "We can't give you that advice ... BUT nor can we guarantee your son's safety if he gives us ALL the information and we go round to that address!" We had no choice .. Sam was at an age where he WAS starting to go out on his own at times and we had to drop it !! .. The memory STILL makes me SICK!! |
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Post by finnmom on Aug 4, 2005 23:07:37 GMT -5
Anne, I agreee with you about kid´s keeping it quiet rather than telling anyone, I think most kid´s dont rush to teel an adult. And then again, there are some kid´s that seen´s like they just cant wait to got and tell I know Sami is one of those "oh, it´s nothing, this happend´s to me a lot, no need to tell anyone..." kind of person and one of his class mate´s is totally opposite, You all guess where that lead´s us  Wheather to tell or not...... ???When bullying get´s to be really bulluiyng instead of all this otehre day-to-day stuff kid´s do, then I think kid´s should be able to tell their parent´s and then parent´s could use their (better) judgment of going further with it or not... As you did with the cellphone incident, I think you did the right choise, you can´t win all the time, then it´s just better to minimize the harm and get on with it. |
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Post by catatonic on Aug 5, 2005 7:47:20 GMT -5
Last year, in 5th grade, my Challenge Boy was bullied by his TEACHER. She created a classroom climate where the other children also thought it was fine to treat my son like cr*p. He endured it for months before telling me about it, and then begged me not to talk to the teacher because he was afraid she'd take it out on him.
So I went to the principal and had him transferred out of the class effective that very instant. I'd never, ever, transferred any of my children out of a class, since in most circumstances I think it teaches kids the wrong things. But this was just too much. Then I talked to the teacher and even though I remained calm and restrained, I told her EXACTLY why I had removed him from her class. Boy did that feel good. And the change in Challenge Boy was amazing. I wish he'd spoken up earlier.
I agree with Anne that kids are very reluctant to "tattle" and that often tattling is not the best way to handle things. But what can they do if ignoring isn't possible (or safe), and fighting back would get them in worse trouble? I would really like to have a third option!
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Post by milesofsmiles on Aug 5, 2005 8:21:12 GMT -5
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Post by tridlette on Aug 5, 2005 8:56:17 GMT -5
I remember Michael getting threatened on the school bus in kindergarten. He effectively ended it by looking right at the bully and announcing in his loudest 5 yr old voice, "You are so TOUGH picking on a kindergartner!" Of course, it was a middle school kid doing the picking and he was thoroughly humiliated! Michael had his cell phone stolen a few months ago in a similar incident to Sam's. A classmate asked to borrow it after school hours, and Michael obliged. The ROTC cadets were called back into formation, and this other boy took off with the phone. Michael broke rank and reported immediately to school security. They checked the video monitors and found the boy. When the approached him, the boy welled up with tears and handed over the phone. The security guard considered it a done deal, but not this  Mom. I called a friend who is also a school security guard and asked her to follow up. Next morning we all got called into the disciplinarian's office. The stealer fell apart and cried again, pulled off his T shirt and showed all the old bruises. Seems that his dear old Dad had a habit of pounding on the kid. The boy wanted the cell phone so he could call the police the next time it happened. He figured if he had the phone for one or two nights, he would return it when the battery died, and then "borrow" someone else's phone for a few days for protection! Daddy Dearest is in a psych treatment center now, and the stealer has a restraining order against his father. It is so easy to ignore the bully, and not "tattle", but in this case, I think Michael might have made a life and death choice that was right. And, Michael made friends with the boy, he knows that if things ever get out of hand, he can come to Michael, and we will advocate for the boy. My security friend reported (secretly) that she has been watching the boy ever since, and his grades have gone up about 15 points per class in the last 3 months of school! I pray that no other kids experience what that boy did, but my moral is, "sometimes kids bully for desperate reasons. Be willing to listen to the bully, he/she may be acting out for attention." Now, as a former supervisor, I hate tattling among the employees. In my case, we were a small company, with only 10 people on duty at a time. We were paired up, two people alone for 10 hour days. There were a lot of petty problems, and I know the vast majority were solved between the partners. But the times they came to the front office for a solution, it was either... "you are adults, solve this yourself" or having to pick sides and ending up with half the company mad at me because I sided with A not B. It wasn't my problem, but it became mine when they asked me to intercede. It is a lose/lose/lose situation most of the time... to tell or not to tell... that is the question! |
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Post by Linda on Aug 5, 2005 10:03:56 GMT -5
Our son will often TRY to get the person to stop what they are doing to annoy him. He will tell them to stop, he will move to the other side of the room, but if that person pursues him, watch out . I told him that taking things into his own hands may get him into trouble. And it has. I just keep reminding him that he may have to hold the threat of going to the teacher as a way to stop the bullying. Just trying to get that one little intervention in there before he takes it into his own hands. He is doing a lot better at letting the kids know that he does not like what is happening to him  Miles I agree....Jacob is the same way...if the kid doesn't leave him alone...he will fight back!!! Today is his last day of "kidz camp" and he has been bullies by a 14 year old "staff member"...The kid hit J with a ball and hurt him the first time and I went to the center to tell the adult staff,and now I wish I hadn't because this little 14 year old "snot" has found other ways to harass....like time out...you can't go on the field trip because you are bad...etc. I told J he doesn't have to go to the camp if he doesn't want to,but he always goes back!! As for the job? I handle the bully on the spot as best as I can before I take it any further. But it is really hard for aduls as well as our children to have to deal with ANY of it. |
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Post by mom2tj on Aug 5, 2005 12:34:38 GMT -5
I'm starting to believe there is no solution here
DS is the tattle telling one he will tell about everything and what that creates is the teachers hate him and they never take him seriously even is all is true
tattle telling is not the answer
fighting is not the answer
standing up and speaking up doesn't work..... at least not for ds how is and least 3 years smaller then the average kid his own age, kids look at him and laught.....
I just don't know.......
I am so scared for this year coming up , he will be with the big boys now our school is divided in 4 groups k, 1-2, 3-4, and 5-6 and just the thought of junior high makes my stomach turn....
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Post by AnneM on Aug 5, 2005 12:59:24 GMT -5
I'm starting to believe there is no solution here DS is the tattle telling one he will tell about everything and what that creates is the teachers hate him and they never take him seriously even is all is true tattle telling is not the answer fighting is not the answer standing up and speaking up doesn't work..... at least not for ds how is and least 3 years smaller then the average kid his own age, kids look at him and laught..... I just don't know....... Mom2tj .... This says the way I feel too because I honestly don't think there IS and "easy" answer here ... but ... The closest I can come and something I always, always tried to get Sam to do was "Tell US .. (his parents)" ... I can remember Sam (when he was being bullied) saying "But YOU can't do anything!! NOBODY can!!" ... but we DID !! We DID do something and that bullying was KNOCKED ON THE HEAD both times !! (Once in Junior School and once early on in High School ... it never happened again!) ... Once we FINALLY became aware of what was happening we went to the Head Teacher and we made it VERY VERY clear that we did NOT want this to come across as "Sam says this or Sam says that ... " and they did exactly as we asked and said instead (to the bully) that they had spoken to many other children (no names given!) .. which they DID do by the way (and this bit is IMPORTANT!) ... and "THIS is the story we have!" ... It worked on BOTH times that Sam was bullied in two totally different schools... Even bullies don't seem to like "other children" (and I reiterate with NO NAMES GIVEN!) saying things against them!! It worked for us ... it honestly did ... Sam DIDN'T get further picked on because there was NO EVIDENCE whatsoever that he had gone to a teacher or parent ... it "appeared" that the information had come from "the kids in general" ... The kids as a whole "rallied" in support of Sam because they were treated as adults and asked directly their versions of what had been going on ... and in my experience kids can be VERY INFORMATIVE when asked this way... (and also as a whole VERY INDIGNANT against the bully!) I believe THIS is the closest to an answer that I have personally found ... and I think teachers need to learn this ... they should NEVER EVER say "oh little Johnny says you have been nasty to him!" ... OMG !! ... That is SOOOOO detrimental (IMHO!) ... THAT not only puts the bully's back-up but also the "other kids" because "little Johnny" is instantly labelled as a "tattler" !! |
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Post by finnmom on Aug 6, 2005 2:03:15 GMT -5
I would think that´s the best answer too. If they tell parent´s, patrent´s can do the best they think is to be done.... Even this will not work all the time´s but.... what else is there to do???
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SKay
Member Emeritus
Posts: 1,126
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Post by SKay on Aug 6, 2005 6:28:50 GMT -5
I agree. This seems to make the most sense. After being informed of the situation, the teacher could also watch for and take care of bullying herself and not even have to say that anyone told her about it.
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Post by finnmom on Aug 6, 2005 15:12:40 GMT -5
I also like to play safe and tell the theacher about how ds react´s on different thing´s; like he take´s what´s coming untill finally he get´s mad, so theacher could keep an eye on thing´s so it wouldn´t get too far, or that ds hate´s to be thouched in line, pushedetc. so theacher could keep him out of those situation´s.... I know it´s silly and it drive´s theacher´s crazy but that´s me, if I think they need to know something then they will get to know |
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Post by mskris on Aug 11, 2005 15:10:05 GMT -5
Yes, telling the parents is best. But even the parents can't manage the situation sometimes. Case in point - when we moved here, Taylor was bullied (second grade). We finally found out and went to the teacher - nothing changed. Taylor was having panic attacks each morning before school. We went to the principal and he said (and I quote), "Taylor does things that draw attention to himself." I was LIVID! I went to the guidance counselor and FINALLY found someone sympathetic! This was a kid (the bully) who had a reputation for being a bully, and the principal did NOTHING! Thank GOD the principal retired that year. Since then we've had one or 2 isolated incidents, one I called the new principal, and she took care of it immediately. Sometimes it works, and sometimes they think the PARENTS are tattling!! Kris |
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