What to do

[Sorka]

Well I am probably giving up on Strattera.. Infact I know I am. It's helping him a little but I still have to sit on him for getting work done every second.
And the little miracle pencil grip is helping with the handwriting.
I was going to start giving him calcium magnsium to see if that will help. What amounts do you typically give? For a 8 year old who is 54 pounds wet?
Thanks!
Denise

[catatonic]

Denise,
For a child your boy's size, a maintenance dose of magnesium would be in the neighborhood of 150mg. If he is magnesium deficient, you would want to use the therapeutic dose, which is twice as high, and is calculated by multiplying the body weight in pounds X 6, for a total of 324mg in your son's case. This is elemental magnesium, not the weight of the compound. (And you don't have to be precise, just an amount that's in the ballpark.)

The weight of the compound is what's typically listed on the bottle. So for example a regular cal/mag supplement that lists 250mg magnesium and 500mg calcium is listing the weight of the magnesium oxide that's in the tablet. You're not getting anywhere near that amount in actual elemental magnesium. There's an article that explains this in some detail (although if you're like me an math isn't exactly your strong point, it will probably be somewhat confusing )
www.albionlabs.com/human/Newsletter/1998October.pdf

For a list of elemental magnesium content per 1,000g of compound for some of the more common compounds, here is a list. ( www.magox.com/why.htm )

Magnesium oxide has by FAR the highest elemental magnesium content. Its bio-availability is poor, however. Months of magnesium oxide did nothing for my son's deficiency. The magnesium chloride is proving much more effective. Chelated minerals are even more bioavailable, but can make up as little as 5% of the compound weight.

Some of the better companies will include the elemental magnesium content on the label. Look for these. It's the best way to know what you're getting. As example, the magnesium chloride (from Alta) that we use is a small tablet and each tablet provides 62mg of elemental magnesium in a magnesium chloride compound of 513mg. And here's an example of a chelated magnesium that provides 250mg elemental magnesium in a 1700mg tablet. One of these tablets per day would come very close to providing the therapeutic dose for a child your son's size:
store.yahoo.com/hono/natplusdynma.html

Finally, eat cashews. 4 oz of cashews (about 1 cup) contains about 300mg of magnesium. For a list of common foods and their magnesium content (list is at bottom of page):
www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/nutrition/factsheets/magnesium.html

Also, take a look at the magnesium website that offers plenty of links to research on magnesium and its key role in neurological and cardiovascular health. There's been some very specific research done on magnesium and ADHD.
www.mgwater.com

Hope some of this helps and doesn't simply confuse you! I feel like the more I read on the subject the more confused I become.

[Sorka]

Thanks Cat.. I knew I could count on you!
I would say that magnesium deficiency is a definite possiblility here. He has also got sensory integreation problems and that is related to magnesium problems as well. as Magnesium is an important element in building the neural nets and structures aroudn the cells in the brain resposible for sensory regulation.

So I am going to give it a try.
It looks like according to the website he would be getting about 120 mg of elemental magnesium per capsule. So two a day should be 240 3 would be 360.. I will start with 2 a day. I am also going to start giving him epsom salt baths and he should absorb magnesium transdermally then. He also has been not able to get to sleep at night so I am going to start giving him melatonin at night to help with that. So perhaps a combination here will help him calm down and slow down.
Thanks for your help.. I just know that the strattera is not really helping it is making him feel sick and not a whole lot more.
D

[AustinsMom]

Sorka,
The strattera didn't work for us either. We had the sickness side effects and it messed up his sleep cycle too--trouble going to sleep, waking up in the middle of the night, etc.

We used melatonin with good success. 1 mg was enough for Austin (he was 55 lbs) and we used the sublinguils. But we just used it short term--less than a month. Pfeiffer suggested using the Calcium/magnesium along with inositol at bedtime, and that has been a good combination for us.

Good luck with sorting all of this out.

[catatonic]

Sorka,
With magnesium, it's always a good idea to start low and build up. That way you reduce the risk that the magnesium will cause diarrhea or stomach cramping.

If you suspect magnesium deficiency, have you tried the Cvostek test at home? It's easy and reliable. You just have your child stand in front of you or sit up straight in a chair (no lying down). Tap with your finger in the hollow of the cheek halfway between the corner of the mouth and the earlobe. If the upper lip under the nose shows a jump or twitch, then magnesium deficiency is probable. Magnesium deficiency can be amazingly stubborn to treat. It's taken six months here to finally see that twitch begin to go away.

Epsom salts baths are a good idea, too. Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate. I use them when my son has been having trouble falling asleep and they help him to konk right out.

[HooDunnit]

On searching the internet, I find that there is a neurological sign called the "Chvostek sign".

The Chvostek sign is described as follows: "Facialis phenomenon. Clinical sign of the presence of a mechanical hyperirritability of the peripheral nerves, particularly demonstrated in percussion of the nervus facialis. Tapping the face over the facial nerve in front of the tragus of the ear causes spasm of facial muscles, typically a twitch of the nose or lips. Seen in tetany and sometimes in anxiety states."

So what you do here is tap the facial nerve on one side of the face and some muscles twitch. It is a sign of hyperirritability of the peripheral nerves.

Magnesium deficiency can cause ADHD, and can be tested for by looking for the Chvostek sign of hyperirritiability of the peripheral nerves.

A big article that I found this morning says that a diagnosis of magnesium deficiency is obvious before the Chvostek sign ever becomes positive: "There is no pathognomonic sign of nervous MD (magnesium deficiency). However, the diagnosis is obvious before Chvostek's sign."

Magnesium deficiency does cause ADHD, but it is like one tiny piece of shot in a shot-gun blast of possibilities that arise with magnesium deficiency: "Clinical forms of nervous primary MD (magnesium deficiency) are multiple. There is a great variety of symptomatic forms according to the main target of the symptomatology: migraine, chronic fatigue, neurosis, restless leg syndrome, Raynaud's phenomenon with an increase of CGRP Mg-dependent, neurolability in children and attention deficit/hyperactivity disorders (ADHD)."

Here is the article that these quotes are from:

www.google.ca/search?q=cache:ueRColi_zLgJ:www.mgwater.com/dur33.shtml+magnesium+adhd+%22Chvostek%27s+sign+%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[Sorka]

Well I sure have that reflex.Can't get him to relax his face enough to try it.. mabye later.