Continuing the carnitine conversation...

[Kimmers]

I was going to post this under the previous thread but it was getting pretty long so...

The issue at hand was whether or not carnitine was effective for ADHD treatment. I know Cat you had said it wasn't effective for your son and I stumbled across this article and thought I would get your opinion on it. The study seems fairly recent (2002) and I didn't know if this would make an impact on anyone's decision to try it. I have thought about it since it was brought up here but no one seemed to have a very good stance on the issue. The article can be seen here:

www.newhope.com/news.cfm?news=1245

Let me know what you think...

Kimmers

[ohmama]

I have no doubt that L-Carnitine is helpful. I wish the article had brought out that it is not a cure-all or the only thing a child should take to see a difference in adhd symptoms. So often someone not familiar with natural alternatives will read something like this and try it for a while. After not seeing results they assume it doesn't work. But it will work if included in the full package of diet, vitamins/minerals, and fatty acids. It has been proven to help with fatty acid transportation. This is why I use it. Oddly enough there was no mention of this benefit in the article. Or maybe I read it too fast and didn't notice.

So, obviously you would want to take the fatty acids along with this to realize the full benefits. Carnitine is essential to the transportation of long chain fatty acids into the cells where the fats can be converted to energy. I also give this because one of the boys takes Depakote and this causes a need for extra Carnitine.

Just a side note.. Major sources of carnitine in the diet are meat, especially organ meats such as the liver, and dairy products. Vegetables, grains, and fruits contain little or no carnitine. Vegetarians are therefore more susceptible to dificiencies of this.

[catatonic]

Interesting article. The amounts of carnitine used were quite high. At 100mg per kg of bodyweight, that would translate to about 4,000mg for my 85 pound son.

Despite the fact that I don't see any immediate impact on my son's behavior from the carnitine, he does take it. From reading about its biochemical action, it's pretty clear that plenty of carnitine will enhance fatty acid metabolism, and that's a good thing even if there are no visible effects.

I don't think I'd try the high amounts cited in the study without further reading. I don't know enough about the effects of taking that much carnitine to be comfortable giving 4,000mg per day. However, it does sound like it's well worth looking into, so when I've checked out some of the medical literature on it, I'll post any results or links I come across.

[Kimmers]

Ohmama-

My son eats very, very LITTLE meat and so this would maybe be a concern of mine-that he is not getting enough through diet. How much do you have your boys on?

I agree with you on the dosage Cat. According to the study, my son would be given 2200 mg a day, I'm sure there has to be positive effects in using smaller amounts.

I'm glad to hear that you are using it Ohmama and that you feel positive about it. I wanted to give it a try to see if it would help (can't hurt right?) but didn't want to pursue it if there still wasn't anyone that felt it was worth it.

Thanks
Kimmers

[ohmama]

Kimmers,
I'm giving 250mg X 3 doses per day = 750mg total
I think the dose given in that article was VERY high for a child and I would call that taking the shotgun approach. Even though there are no known adverse reactions, I personally feel a smaller dose would be more reasonable.

In her book "Heal With Amino Acids and Nutrients" Dr. Sahley suggests 1,000 to 3,000mg per day in divided doses. This is for adults. A childs dose is usually half that, or 500 to 1,500mg in divided doses.

I'll quote some of the Carnitine information from her book (hope I'm not breaking any copyright rules?):

Early research indicated carnitine to be essential to the diet, but later research discovered the body produced carnitine from lysine and methionine provided sufficient amounts of niacin, vitamins B6, C, an iron were present. If a carnitine deficiency exists, deficiencies of lysine and methionine also exist.

In children, carnitine deficiency may manifest as loss of muscle tone, failure to thrive, swelling in the brain, recurrent infections, hypoglycemia, and heart disturbances.

If your level of Vitamin C is low, you can have an apparent deficiency of carnitine. If carnitine is absent or deficient, many fats cannot be burned. The fats build up within the cell and bloodstream as triglycerides and cholesterol. Carnitine supplementation significantly reduces serum triglycerides and cholesterol levels, while increasing HDL (good cholesterol).

It also prevents the accumulation of ketones in the blood stream. Ketosis can be life threatening if uncontrolled. And ketonic states can cause the loss of potassium, magnesium and calcium. Ketones result from the incomplete burning of fat, and are extremely toxic to the nervous system and brain. Carnitine helps to significantly lower the ketone levels.

Recenty studies indicate carnitine may be a factor with depression. Supplementation with 1,000mg per day (adult dose), divided, is helpful.

Carnitine is very safe with no significant side effects ever reported in any human studies. But use only the L-carnitine form of carnitine. There are no known adverse interactions between carnitine and any drug or nutrient.

It goes on to say how beneficial it is for the heart.

[Kimmers]

Exactly what I wanted to know:

Benefits as well as recommendation on dosage.

You said the effects aren't pronounced but subtle correct? I think I might start with 500 mg. because as I understand your boys are a little older? My boy is only 6 and already taking 13 pills a day, what a trooper! It is silly-whenever we go to the drugstore he asks me almost immediately after walking through the door, "Are you getting me another new pill?" I gotta laugh at him because he has suddenly become very happy to take them and doesn't even mind when I use the guinea pig approach on him. 180 degrees from 2 months ago!

By the way, does the first paragraph mean that by taking carnitine and bringing these levels up in the body, that the other levels of minerals, etc. will come up as well?

Thanks!
Kimmers

[ohmama]

Kimmers,
I think the results are good but not obvious. Does that make sense? It all works together, like I can't say I see any noticable results by taking Vitamin E or C but I know these are necessary as antioxidants and so I give them.

I think starting with 500mg is good. That's real cute about your son saying "Are you getting me another new pill?" My boys name each pill and can tell me why they are taking it. I think they will grow up to be in the vitamin/health food store business. They don't mind taking them either. Sometimes they try to see who can take the most at one time. It's like a competition to swallow the most.

I would say that by taking carnitine it will make the other supplements, especially the omega 3, work better to give a more balanced nutritional plan. They all compliment each other from what I understand.

[Kimmers]

One more thing, the book mentions that carnitine deficiency can manifest as hypoglycemia. Could you please read my thread "Supplements wearing off?" I have suspected this before just because of the timing of his behavior and meltdowns. They are especially bad after school when he hasn't eaten for several hours and sometimes I feel like he isn't eating much food at school for lunch. What do you think-am I reaching for answers that don't exist or do I have something logical to investigate with his doctor? His grandmother is very much diabetic and we have pricked his finger before to have his sugar checked but don't know how reliable of a test that is. He displays symptoms of diabetes but they are also the same symptoms as a fatty acid deficiency...frequent thirst, frequent urination, irritability, excessive hunger, etc ??


Thanks!
Kimmers

[ohmama]

Kimmers,
I think hypoglycemia is a real possibility. Testing for this should be given. It can be controlled with diet and I think you are on the right track to suspect it. ADHD behavior and the behavior of someone with hypoglycemia is VERY similar. It is not unusual to have both. Not a lot of fun for you or the child.

I don't know about the testing for this. From what I remember it's a blood glucose tolerance test? I would ask your doctor what's the latest kind of testing available?

[Kimmers]

Well I don't know how to go about getting insurance to cover the glucose test. I don't think I can just walk in and say "test my child for this and that and this while you're at it." That is also why I haven't investigated allergies or thyroid either. I have had a very negative outcome with them covering anything having to do with his ADHD. That is why we have halted the therapist sessions because they are trying to pin a "pre-existing condition" to just about everything. Anyway, I will see what I can do because if it is something along these lines, we need to know. And if it is not, then great! At least then we'll know!

Thanks
Kimmers

[ohmama]

Kimmers,
I don't think you will have any problem getting this covered. It is testing and has nothing to do in connection with adhd. It is a separate medical condition that requires treatment. You will probably need to get a referal from your primary doctor just like a lab work referral.