BiPolar, Mood Disorder, or what?

[Anna]

Hiya everyone...

My mom has several foster children. One was diagnosed with ADHD before he came to live with her... This child is 10 years old and can be super super sweet... but then just look at him wrong and it'll set him off. He's very very defiant and back-talks a LOT... but other times he's cooperative and tries to please...

Now I know a lot of his issues are due to his parents and why he is in foster care...but I think this child has some SERIOUS issues other than ADHD...

The other day he got mad and knocked a coffee cup all over the floor of the vehicle, then ten minutes later he was fine... He got mad that his gameboy wouldn't do what he wanted, so he opened the door and threw it outside...when we then took it away, he got REALLY upset and went outside and proceeded to throw rocks at our car "we took his property he'll hurt ours" logic... But ten minutes after we dragged him inside and sat him down to cool off he was smiling and acting fine... He backtalked to my dad and then proceeded to kick him in the privates because dad told him that he'd lose his privileges for talking disrespectful to him... but a few minutes later he was fine...

See the pattern? My parents are taking him to a therapist, but it's still too soon for him to know what is causing these issues... any suggestions or ideas?

Anna

[Amsmom]

Hi Anna,
My ds8 is bipolar/adhd and has had outbursts (rages) like this. Are your parents taking him to a therapist or a psychiatrist? Please tell your parents I think they are wonderful for caring so much for this child that is not even their own. ((((((Hugs to all of you)))))))

[AnneM]

As Amsmom says - what fantastic people your parents are! ... and in fact your whole family... This little guy could certainly do with some help by the sound of it ... and it certainly sounds like he has had a rough ride before being lucky enough to come to your family.

Please keep us posted on his progress and what the therapist says...

[Anna]

I believe he's seeing a Child Psychiatrist... but not 100% sure of that... They've started him on some drug for mood swings, so we'll see if that helps anything... I can't remember what the name of it is...

Anna

[AnneM]

Fingers crossed that the meds help him. If you find out what meds they are let us know ... I bet there will be people here who will be familiar with them and hopefully give you some more information...

You might also want to look under the Medication section. There is a thread there by "lisle" called "Anyone using a mood stabalizer" ... and it has some interesting information ...

GOOD LUCK!

[singnmommy]

It sounds like it could be a cobination of things. This child could definitely have some anger issues that stem from the problems with his parents. The mood swings though sound like bipolar disorder which can be controlled with medication if the person takes it. My uncle is bipolar, but he takes his medication and goes to the doctor. It makes a different. Your parents sound like wonderful people and I wish them luck.

[MomX2]

No doubt we can't diagnose him online but I have to wonder if a mood stabilizing medication would help. Those behaviors sound similar to my daughters only worse. At any rate, if it is ADHD and he is on medications then the medications clearly aren't helping.

[eaccae]

I'm not discounting bipolar at all (my father is bipolar and didn't get treatment until about 10 years ago) but it could also be a combination of high impulsiveness mixed with never learning anger management or other issues stemming from his situation. DS is highly impulsive and part of that is his outburts - his inability to control them in the moment but then being absolutely fine in the next. This boy's behavior may be mimicking things he grew up seeing . . . DS is not bipolar - and the medication for ADHD does an amazing job at controlling his impulsiveness - but once he is off the meds - it is like Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde.

Anyway - it is just a thought if you find that the mood stabilizers aren't working at all . . .

[reg]

My son was dx'd with ADHD at the age of 3. He has been on stimulant medication until last year when he was put on Strattera. Concerta was added back in to help with focus and he was doing a great deal better on that combination. He always responded well to Ritalin, Adderall, and Concerta, the only problems he had were due to rebound when the medication wore off, then he got more hyper. He started seeing a counselor in March that thought my son may have bipolar disorder. That was never suspected by either his Neurologist, his teachers or us. We still do not believe that he has bipolar disorder. Would the Concerta calm him down when he was having hyperactive behavior if he truly were bipolar? He has never had any depression. He is very active, he is in the Marching Band, Football, Soccer, and track. He doesn't have a sleep problem. He never wants to miss school or any other activities. They are basing the dx of bipolar on the facts that he can tend to speak rapidly at times and has a "flight of ideas" during their sessions, he also can tend to be a bit arrogant about his intelligence (but he has been tested as gifted) There is not a family history of bipolar in our family, although my other son, my husband and my nephew have all been dx'd ADHD. This counsellor said that my son seems sad to him at times. He has been through a few experiences that would make anyone sad, it he were not sad at times, then I think there would truly be something to worry about. I want to take him to one of Dr. Amen's clinics. I am so tired of this, trying to match symptoms to a list. There are so many of the symptoms that overlap between ADHD and bipolar. I just want to make absolutely sure before we go any further. I really need advice.

[ohmama]

reg,
As I was reading your post I thought... This is not bipolar! Then I came to the end where you said you wanted to go to one of the Amen clinics. If you do this you will know for sure his true dx without guessing. That is what these doctors are doing. It is all a guess and then experimenting on his brain with different meds depending on an opinion of one doctor verses another.

Liike you, I would not accept this form of diagnosis and went to the Amen Clinic. It was the best decision I ever made. I didn't like what I heard but I know I now have the truth about all my boys problems and have a complete and accurate evaluation.

Sometimes, quite often in fact, this is not necessary and you can get good results with a standard evaluation. I so envy the parents who can do this and are able to figure it all out. With us there were too many overlapping conditions and it was very necessary to have the brain scans to see what was going on and find a treatment program that would target our specifics.

I would encourage you to pursue this evaluation. I know you will never regret it.

[Amsmom]

Hi Reg,
Welcome to the forums. We are glad you are here!
My ds8 is bipolar/adhd and I had the same reaction as ohmama to your description of your son--this does not sound like bipolar! In my experience, kids with mood disorders, such as bipolar, have negative reactions to the stimulants like Concerta, Ritalin and Adderall. Your son's good experiences with the stims seem to contradict the bipolar theory. Good luck to you, keep us posted.

[reg]

Thank you Ohmama and Ansmom for responding to my questions. I have been reading Ohmama's posts on this board and another for over a year now. I am going to call the new clinic that opened near DC and see when we can get in. I know I will feel better knowing for sure. Especially since we have 2 ADHD sons. I have been reading so much about both conditions lately, and I really thought I was right, but it is nice to get a little confirmation. I read through the DSM-IV today, and that also helped me to believe that they are wrong. I truly appreciate the help and the support that you all give here.

[reg]

Well, I'm still so torn about what to do. I know I need to do something soon. My son's Neurologist feels that taking my son to Dr. Amen's clinic would not be helpful. He said we could be spending a lot of money for nothing. I have found an imaging clinic here in my area that can do brain SPECT imaging, but it is not the specific machine that the Amen clinic requires. $3000.00 is a great deal of money to us and the thought of having to travel with him unmedicated is sort of scary also. I have called all over the area and everyone here believes that this is not helpful in treating ADHD. I even called the Cleveland Clinic and their department of Nuclear medicine told me that they do not believe this SPECT imaging to be helpful with ADHD. My Neurologist really wants me to take my son to a different Psychiatrist, but I am really scared to do that also.

Oh Mama--was your doctor hesitant about this technology also? I did call the Amen clinic in Reston Va.
which is the closest one to us (about 6 hours away) said they are now scheduling in October.

[ohmama]

My doctor was not against going to the clinic but I didn't know that when I first made the appointment. He couldn't give me any answers or medication that worked, only made things worse. The neuro was a joke. That exam consisted of having my boy jump on one foot and she took his reflexes and other minor testing.

I didn't care what any doctor said, all they could offer were opinions along with the trial and error of what med to use and I wanted more than that. It was obvious to me that if you could see the brain you stood a better chance of getting an accurate diagnosis. It does not seem reasonable to me that a check list of symptoms or other superficial examinations could be completely accurate. This is the foundation of the evaluation process that the many doctors offer. From there it is given a diagnosis of adhd. I knew it was more than just adhd. I lived it every day.

The $3,000 spent in finding out what was wrong was justified in my opinion. If my "fire boy" were to grow up without an accurate diagnosis and treatment program I figured I would spend at least that much or more on the lawyers he would need when he got in trouble because of not getting proper treatment when he was young. It doesn't go away or get better if you can't identify the problem completely and correctly. Those who criticize these brain scans have nothing better to offer than their flawed opinions.

After reading the books by Dr. Amen it made so much sense that this was the better way to diagnose and know for sure. Seeing is believing. Looking back I can say this is the best decision I ever made for my son. I hope those who choose against this method of diagnosis will feel as confident. It is heart wrenching enough to have a child with these brain disorders but to avoid doing all I could because of feeling I needed someones approval was not something I could personally live with emotionally.

I hope you will read "Change Your Brain Change Your Life" and "Healing ADD" if you haven't already. If you decide to go to the clinic it is a decision that should be made from your gut and your heart once you have taken in all the information.

[Amsmom]

Dear Reg,
I have heard wonderful things about the Amen clinic from ohmama and other members, but I'm a single mom and would never be able to get the $3000. If the cost is also a concern to you, it may be helpful to try another psychiatrist as the neuro suggested. You said you were afraid to try that, but you could just go for a second opinion, you don't have to do what they say if you are uncomfortable. I know that the first psych I tried was HORRIBLE!!! He triple-booked patients, only spent 5 minutes with us, prescribed Prozac for my ds after only 5 minutes, didn't return my calls when the Prozac caused adverse effects. I am so fortunate that the next psych we went to has been phenomenal. Maybe trying that will be the easiest next step.
((((((((((Hugs to you Reg)))))))))))