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Post by thogan on Dec 21, 2004 11:13:51 GMT -5
I am the father of a 6 year old boy who has started having problems in first grade with paying attention, organization, and impulsive behavior. Back in pre-school he was diagnosed with Sensory Integration Dysfunction (didn't like using finger paint, playdoe, had fine motor skill issues) which were are working with a OT to assist him with. He has gotten much better and now am working on increasing his upper body strength. My wife and I had developed a chart for him to follow which has pictures showing him what he needs to do throughout the day (make bed, get dressed, place clothes in hamper, etc.). We also work with him doing some exercises in the morning on a exercise jump-e-leen (running, jumping which stimulates the Sensory problems he has). Anyways I was also his coach for soccer and Tee-Ball and have noticed that even though the other kids often get a little out of control when excited they at least listened when it was time to concentrate. My son on the other hand when in the accompany of others continued to run around, kicking the ball away from his team-mates, steeping on their feet (a behavior he did not have at home). No matter if I or the other coach tried to calm him he seemed to resist listening. This trait apparently continues to happen at school, often talking out of term, figetting, stepping on the heals of others while in line (never in a harmful way just a playful and distruptive way). We sat down with the teach, OT, and school psychologist who had us all fill out questionnaires which were later evaluated. The OT firmly believes the behavior is related to his Sensory issues however the results of the questionnaire show he is moderately atypical for ADHD. We had our son's pediatrician sit down with us and our son to go over the results of the schools report, a report we filled out for the hospital as part of the visits. Our pediatrician who screens the ADHD cases for the hospital felt our son did posssess the traits of ADHD and recommended we "try" him on 18mg of Concerta for a observation period of three weeks.
This leads me to why I am writing this. My wife and I are not big opponents of medication and was wondering if there is any alternative methods which "do" work. I've read about a medication called ATTEND which sounds great on paper but don't necessarily believe all it claims. Can any of you share any advice through your own research/experience on what natural alternatives may help. Don't get me wrong if the medication is what is needed to improve my son's quality of life I'm all for it but if there is a diet or vitamins which may provided the same benefit I'd rather go that route. As it is he has inherited one of my blood clotting disorders and may have to take coumadin in the far future.
Anyways all imputs would be very much appreciated.
Regards,
Tom in CT
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Post by finnmom on Dec 21, 2004 12:55:34 GMT -5
 Thogan and welcome to our forum´s!! For your question; we have several member´s around who have great knowlidge of natural alt´s on treating adhd. You might want to look at the thread:how to start, it´s on the very top of this site, there is a lot of info already in there!! I´ve seen many swearing on omega-3´s and magnesium, if you browse the site down(or use the shearch engine) you´ll find a lot of info of those two. I´ve used omega-3 for my ds9 and it´s working, if not so well as for some, but anything that work´s is fine with me, ha!! Again welcome, be sure that all the question´s have been seen in here, so ask away, we have a great support group in here, we can rant and have fun and everything in between!
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 21, 2004 15:23:52 GMT -5
I don't think it is a good idea to use Omega IIIs if you suspect a blood clotting problem as Omega IIIs have an anticoagulant effect.
Catatonic will have more knowledge about this. I am sure she will jump in.
Also if you ever use coumadin, Stimulants are contraindicated as it reduces the effectiveness of coumadin .
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Post by thogan on Dec 21, 2004 15:35:51 GMT -5
The OMEGA-3's would not have an adverse affect since it would help prevent clotting which would be a good thing ICO my son. I'm hoping he'll never have to take coumadin. I, myself, am a lifer on coumadin until science produces a better anti-coagulant since I have three known blood clot disorders and have had two clotting episodes. Thanks very much for your input!
Regard,
Tom in CT
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Post by milesofsmiles on Dec 21, 2004 15:45:29 GMT -5
Hi Tom, Looks like you ripped a page out of our life story. We have been though the exact same experience down to the pictures on the chart.  I do not have a lot of experience (actually none) in the natural area, but just wanted to welcome you. Oh, I know and my son knows too, keep away from red food coloring. It brings out the  in him. My son is like a calidoscope and we have to be one step ahead of him with behavior modifications. You might want to pop over into the behavior section for some creative ideas. Miles |
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Post by Mayleng on Dec 21, 2004 16:11:04 GMT -5
The OMEGA-3's would not have an adverse affect since it would help prevent clotting which would be a good thing ICO my son. I'm hoping he'll never have to take coumadin. I, myself, am a lifer on coumadin until science produces a better anti-coagulant since I have three known blood clot disorders and have had two clotting episodes. Thanks very much for your input! Regard, Tom in CT I think you misunderstood me. Omega 3 can cause excessive bleeding. I am going to quote what Catatonic posted to me when I was asking about my son's nose bleeds (he was on Omega 3s). quote: Clinical studies show that children require approximately 480mg daily of DHA in order to realize its benefits (combined with 720mg EPA seems to be most effective). However, at 600mg DHA daily, side effects related to its anticoagulant effects begin to show up. These include excessive bleeding (like the nosebleeds you mention) and easy bruising Unquote: Just something to look out for. I am not explaining this very well but I am sure Catatonic will explain it better when she logs on tomorrow. |
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Post by rosyred45 on Dec 21, 2004 20:36:53 GMT -5
Hi Tom, well, as you can see, we have a very diverse and very, very helpful group.
I personally do not medicate my son. We follow the Feingold Program which eliminates artificials-color and flavor, preservatives, and salysitates.
What I have noticed with my son, I can pin point what he has had according to undesired behavior.....
whiney...salysitates
hostile.....artificial flavor
impulsive.....preservatives
The list goes on to the T, but I think that if you eliminate things tha tmay have an effect, you could have progress with out the medication.
It is ultimately your desision to make whether to medicate or not, but look around and see if modifications may help first.
Good luck
Kaiti
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Post by catatonic on Dec 22, 2004 10:15:31 GMT -5
Hi Tom and welcome, We are very fortunate to have a neurologist who advocates dietary modifications prior to medicating ADHD children. My son has remained completely med-free since being diagnosed 3 years ago and while it hasn't always been the easiest route to follow, I am content because I feel we're addressing physiological causes of his ADHD symptoms rather than focusing exclusively on finding a pharmaceutical mix that achieves behavioral management. I would recommend looking at the Feingold Association website at www.feingold.org . For us, the Feingold diet brought about an astonishing change in Challenge Boy's behavior. We had to go the extra step of eliminating corn syrup and other corn-derived sweeteners, in addition to the artificial colors, artificial flavors (including vanillin) and antioxidant preservatives (BHA, BHT, TBHQ) eliminated by the basic diet. It's been well worth the effort. What we achieved was dramatic reduction of the "acting out" type behaviors such as temper tantrums, oppositional behavior, over-reaction and paranoia...in addition to eliminating his migraine headaches and bedwetting. For attentiveness problems, the diet has not been as effective. Other food sensitivities cause behavioral problems for many children. You might want to look at Dr. Doris Rapp's book "IS This Your Child" for instructions on how to track down these sensitivities and remove the offending foods. We use supplements to help with attention issues. The most useful supplements for us are Omega-3 (fish oil), magnesium, lecithin, and the amino acid tyrosine. For information on use of supplements and several other nutritionally based types of natural treatments, I'd recommend Laura Stevens' book "13 Effective Ways To Help Your ADD/ADHD Child." You can often find it in the library, or it is available through Laura's website at: users.nlci.com/nutrition/On the Attend product...Attend is a homeopathic remedy -- actually a "mixed" remedy, since some of it's ingredients are present in macro quantities. I haven't found that homeopathic remedies are generally successful, and I don't believe the macro ingredients are present in sufficient quantities to achieve therapeutic effects. If you are an advocate of homeopathic treatments, I don't mean to offend your belief system. If you're curious about homeopathy but haven't tried it yet, please take a look first at the discussion on Quackwatch entitled "Homeopathy, The Ultimate Fake": www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.htmlAlso "Why Pharmacists Should Not Sell Homeopathic Products" www.homeowatch.org/policy/pharm.htmlWith your son's potential for suffering from a blood clotting disorder, I would think that Omega-3 supplementation would be doubly beneficial in his case. It's major benefits are in the areas of neurological and cardiovascular health. The mild anticoagulant effect could help prevent clotting problems from developing in the first place. There's a great deal of clinical research on this issue, and many studies cited in the "References" section of the following article, if you're interested: atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/data/24/9/1734/DC1/1Most recently, one study concluded: "Dietary fish oil can provoke a hypocoagulant effect depending on the fibrinogen level." www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15217806Please keep coming back to the forum, whether you want specific answers or simply emotional support. It's so helpful to know you're not alone in your struggles, and to discuss them with people who truly understand what you are experiencing. |
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Post by thogan on Dec 22, 2004 10:31:03 GMT -5
Thanks for all your responses, my wife and I really do appreciate your help!
My wife and I aren't totally against medication if that is what is best for our son. However, if a diet change or vitamin supplement can help improve his concentration and help him control his organizational skills I rather give it a try. As mentioned I'm on coumadin for blood clots and will be on it for life. I'm not a bigger believe in long term medication because despite pharmaceutical claims that it's side effects are minimal I tend not to buy into that. I spent seven years of my military career fighting on remain on active duty due to blood clotting. The fight to save my career turned into a fight to improve the future health of my children. I was asked to become part of a steering committee that the U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention started to review the needs of clotting patients. This committee became a National non-profit organization this past year for which I am a board member for. It seems just I start to grasp the full understanding of one medical condition another is thrown in our path.
Again, I really appreciate your help and answers!
Have a Happy and Safe Holiday Season!
Regards,
Tom in CT
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Post by finnmom on Dec 22, 2004 11:09:07 GMT -5
Thogan Hi again, you mentioned your doc has offered concerta 18mg for try-out  My son is currently on concerta 18mg(+ ritalin 5 mg for afternoon boost) only on school days, and it´s working well, it really help´s him to concentrate in school. I can perfectly well understand your hesetation about med´s, we all go through that road: to try or not to It´s though desicion.... and only you can make that!! We´ve been happy with concerta so far... just thought to let you know.... |
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Post by Sorka on Dec 22, 2004 11:21:29 GMT -5
Quite often the 'symptoms' of sensory integration and ADHD overlap or are the same.. but have very different causes.
It can be tricky to sort out.
With us the ADHD diagnosis came before the SI issues were brought to light.
Is he allowed any outlet at school? Is there anything provided for him to aleve his sensory seeking behaviours? An excercise ball to sit on, being aloud to pace at the back of the room while reading? A mini trampoline in the nurses office or something during 'break' times in the day to work it out..
Being alowed to chew gum while working to focus..
Being placed in the front of the line so he is not tempted to step on peoples heels.. or even a weighted vest or other weighted items to help give him that proprioceptive input that he needs..
I would see if you OT is willing to meet with the school teacher and nurse and principal concelor gym teacher.. ets.. everyone
A few good books if you don't have them are the Out of Sync child books.. you might want to get the out of sync child has fun book.. or there is a Sensory integration toolbox for teachers .. (you would need to do a search for that online or try Henry OT)
What is the school doing to educate themselves on Sensory integration dysfunction so they can better serve your son..
And above all.. DO NOT LET THEM cooerseharrass or bully you into meds.. there are many states that have laws against that! And there is a federal law in the works..
and you know what.. with the meds.. guess what?? Yup the SI symptoms will still be there!
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Post by thogan on Dec 22, 2004 11:36:40 GMT -5
Sorka,
We have one of those exercise trampolines at home. He does about a fifteen minute workout prior to school while listening to his favorite music CD. Once in school he sits in the swing at the OT office in the morning and his teacher has been placing him at the head of the line on the way to lunch. I think the SPD aspect is really helping both at home and at work. The problem is he is still very impulsive and can't seem to control himself at times. Last night he ate two small pieces of homemade fudge and has been bouncing off the walls this morning stating he hates school. I definitely am a believer that the diet has to have some bearing on his actions.
Question for all of you, did your children always display symptoms or did they appear as the child got over. Part of me feels I must have been in denial all these years but looking back I see a drastic change over the past year and a half. I'm not sure if it is because he is older (age 6 now) and more active or if the symptoms are more dominate now.
My wife is really looking into the Feingold diet. Problem I noticed is I find just as many believers as there are people who trash the diet. It's all confusing. Just as you think this is the definitely direction to go you find something that makes you re-think what you had read.
For those of you who have their children on medication. What happens if you stop administering it? Is there a period where after stopping the medication that the childs symptoms intensify? If so how long and does the effects wear off? Just want to look at the whole picture. As far as the Omega-3 vitamins, is there a brand you all recommend that can be found at a store like GNC at the malls or Vitamin World?
As always all inputs are appreciated!
Regards,
Tom
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Post by Sorka on Dec 22, 2004 12:22:51 GMT -5
You have probably seen a change in symptoms over the last year as school started becoming more 'constricting' He was probably expected to sit more and do more paper work .. and then he might need more of an outlet to counteract that time he is expected to sit.
And yes Diet does make a difference.. If they tell women who have migraines to avoid chocolate (bummer) and nuts and such.. that these foods trigger headaches and such then What is the big problem with thinking that food can effect behaviour??
I know that through the Feingold diet.. my son bounces off the wall when he drinks orange juice, and red dye does effect him.. so I avoid those things.. now I really need to look at it a little more.. because I know there is something else that is working on him.. it is even giving him a fine rash on his face..
So the elimination diet is really worth a try for you in my opinion.
If you are going to try concerta it is probably one of the best short acting meds as far as rebound.. at the end of the period when the dose wears off.. Quite often there is an hour or so when the meds are wearing off that you need to basically walk on eggshells around these kids or they will totally meltdown.. And it just figures that that time often coencides with homework/dinner time...
ugh.
So be warned.
And yes I think there is a period of time where when you quit meds that they have an upswing in bad behaviour. I think it is more so with a long acting medication than with the short acting one.. as we have been through both.
On the other side they say that children who have been on stimlulant meds for two years or more show a difference in the pathway fibers in their brains that is more in line with 'normal' kids.
Denise
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Post by Linda on Dec 22, 2004 12:48:21 GMT -5
Tom...I think the symtoms were always there....you like a lot of us thought "It was all boy"  ADHD seems to peak when a child(especially boys" is age 6!!!! As far as meds are concerned we started out with ritalin...terrible rebound effect for about an hour...switched over to concerta which worked "wonders" and now at age 16 Paul is med free. It is a personal choice whether to "med" or not and a difficult one too...but once we decided togo the med route we never looked back |
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Post by rosyred45 on Dec 22, 2004 13:16:20 GMT -5
Hi again Tom, to answer your question about when we figured it out ;D, sorry, Mikey is 7, and I have worked with kids for the past, let's see....... ???13 yrs professionally, not counting the babysitting and stuff, but I always knew it......., BUT I see Mikey as Mikey and we go at that pace and develop his strengths. I am not against medication, but do not see it fit for Mikey. Mikey, yes is inattentive to details sometimes, but we work on his attention by maikng things fun for him to learn. He does have a problem when it comes to school and the reptetative "boring" stuff, but he is getting better when it comes to that. He is highly intellegent and can explain to people ideas and procedures that we as adults don't even think about, but he does. Very inquisitive and has the heart of gold, we never tell him he needs to stop asking questions---of course unless I am counting and I need that silence Anyhow, since I have a base of eduational schooling, I personally believe in natural learning and natural consequenses. Touch the stove?, ouch that's hot, don't do that again. Play in the mud puddle?, well, your feet got wet and NO you aren't changing socks for the 10th time today... rather mean spirited to read it, BUT that is how my kids learn. They all learn differently, so that is what I try to strive in bringing out the best with. Good luck  |
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